O/T Was I unreasonable? Gave painter 1 week to finish

As far as materials, I think for most of us that do paint/body work, it comes down to trusting the materials that we'll only have to repair it once.

I just don't have the time to go back and re-do things if the cheaper products don't do what they are supposed to do.

 

Thanks!

 

Tell your next fabric/parts supplier to get the stuff to you whenever he can and let me know how that works out for you.

I don't know what world you sit a spin in, but deadlines run everything and by not working out a schedule you are either a inexperienced hack or just don't want to have to stand up and answer for not getting the work done on time.

I just finished one of my professions deadlines "April 17th". How many of my clients with Corporations, Partnerships and Single Props relied on me making the deadline?
Every Single One!

Before becoming an accountant I worked in structural engineering for 20 years. How the hell do you think any of the buildings, highways or bridges get built without a deadline?

While I may not be an artist, "Deadlines are Stupid" sounds alot like my ten year old.

s.

 

Lots of pissing and moaning about pricing and various excuses. The guy promised a completed job by a certain date and missed that date more than once.

What the hell ever happened to staying true to your word?

 

HAHAHA, that is funny stuff. I was a bodyman/painter for 6 years and now I'm an engineer in the telecom business. When we bid a large telecom contract with completion date penalties, we just figure out the worst case cost for us and ADD that cost to the original proposal. Customer pays either way, depends on which way you want to pay it.

 

AMEN brother, I'm sofa king glad tax season is over! Time to get back to playing with cars!

 

Trust me...there is a HUGE difference in quality. That's why the good body shops usually only use high quality, expensive product. I won't use anything but Sikkens, and it's about the most expensive product out there. Think about it, if there wasn't a difference, most shops would use the cheap paint so they could increase their profit margin. One big reason they don't try that: come-backs kill your profit....

 

Nothing wrong with a letter ....better yet is a registered letter and make sure you have copies for court. If the car wasnt done in the time frame promised and he was getting jerked around a letter asking for completion by a certian date and stating legal advice will be sought is a good way to go. Id still go after him and id try for the money you payed up front. The deal was to finish the car not hand it back unfinished. Again it was agreed when the car would be finished and it wasnt.. Some cost and time over run is ok but sounds like this painter is just a lazy ass that dont want to finish the job.
Dave

 

I agree with you guys that the shop owner may not have lived up to his word, but holy shit you guys, you need to realize that GotRust got one hell of a deal for only $2K. Seriously. The materials alone were that much (sandpaper, primer, sealer, masking tape and paper, basecoat, clear, filters, cleaning materials). Even if it has to be re-cleared, all of the hard work is done. If he had to pay 10k for an incomplete job, this would be a different thread.

 

Dont matter about the price.. He was quoted a complete job and thats where all you guys are loosin it. Even if it was a verbal agreement it was an agreement with an exchange of money for profit on the painters end. Promised at a certian date and in this case dont look like shits been done. On the other thread its not finished. I really dont give a shit id go for the money in both cases. We have enuff liers in the world so why would you want to let them off the hook? A deal is a deal .
Dave

 

I sure am glad I quit doing custom paint and murals for others long long ago.

Thanks for reminding me why.

A few years ago when I was waiting on an upholstery job that was way behind schedule and keeping me from the Chicago Car Show, I went to the shop and spent several late nights till 4 A.M. helping what I could to get the pieces ready and fitted.

I didn't fuss. I didn't complain or threaten anyone. I just did it.

The car missed one show, and was barely ready in time for a very late run up to another show, and I was half asleep during the whole thing.

Nobody sued anybody, I paid what he asked, and I still have a good upholsterer.

I have much more in common with the guy who stays up late with his sleeves rolled up because the job has thrown some unexpected curves at him than I do with the guys who scream at the waitress and demand free food because of cold french fries.

My respect goes to the guy with the dirty fingernails.
My cars will NEVER be "Hot Rod by Visa"

always pay the workman his wages.

 

I agree that the job wasn't completed as promised, and it should have been. I don't condone what that guy did, but:

GotRust paid for 50%. That car is way more than 50% finished. More like 90%. No court in the world would make the body shop refund that 2k. Once again: 2k is a damn STEAL for what he ended up getting, even though he has to finish that last 10%. If you're not a bodyman, you won't understand it.

 

Wonderful quote. and so true....

So nobody gets the wrong idea, I think you are in the right, and I gotta think even more so since more has come out about him adding more to the job and talking you into the yellow/flames. The man simply blew his self-imposed deadline--period.


To answer your ORIGINAL question........NO, you're not being unreasonable. Still, you got more than you paid for. Be happy

Normally, I wouldn't have said anything, but I figured this thread was gonna be a hell-bound condemnation of painters and body shops in general That dead horse has been beat too much by clueless people.

 

Even though he has to finish that last 10%.... thats a screwed up line of thinking.

I'm not a bodyman, maybe you can enlighten me on how its a "STEAL"!

Since when did bodymen get an exclusive mental perspective on what is considered "done"? Maybe I missed the newsflash where they became a misunderstood abused class of society.
I thought in every profession, if you fail to meet the contract requirements (deadline or workmanship) you don't get paid and suffer the consequences - so pick a different profession or use it as a lesson for the next contractual bid. But it must be different for bodymen. I'm not trying to bash bodymen but you really think this guy got a deal? I'd guess he would rather have spent the other $2k and not have had to hound this guy ever other day about getting the agreed upon work done.

It is typical that the last 10% of any type of project eats way more than 10% of the time & budget. Especially if you have to pick it up where someone else left off. I'd bet it'll cost more than $2k to get that 10% finished.

How much is the car owners time and hassle worth? He contracted for a finished project! How much time has the owner now got in trying to line up other professionals to finish the work? Should he get nothing for his time/hassle, since it is a direct result of the painter failing to meet the contract requirements?

I'm glad I didn't teach my 10 year old that 90% done is a "steal". If he gets the garbage 90% down the driveway, I should consider that a "steal" for half his allowance. Shit no, I have to go and finish it. Maybe tonight I'll tell him to do 90% of his homework, after all his teacher shouldn't be upset since it won't take her long to finish that 10% of his homework and she can just give him half his grade.


s.

 

Newsflash: I never said it was "done".

I doubt you'll even try to understand this concept, but let me try to explain it this way: If that same bodyshop offered that level of paint job for anyone on the HAMB for 2K, you would be CRAZY not to take him up on it. Think about it for a while. Hell, I would seriosly take him up on that offer today. For $2,000 the customer gets the body work and custom paint job, but after you get the car back you only have to have it re-cleared. Trust me, it's a steal.

Since you're having a hard time with this, and dishing out ridiculous analogies, here's one: 4yrs ago I hired a contractor to build my house, it cost me $136k. If the contractor would have skipped town and left me with the house 90% done but I only paid him 50% of the money, that means I got a house for $68k and I would have to finish the siding, interior trim, and maybe build the sidewalk. I would have been pretty happy, even after the headache of trying to get it all finished, because the construction materials alone would have cost more than 68k. It would have been a STEAL.

You guys just don't realize the amount of labor and materials to get that car to where it is in that pic. It only has to be sanded down and re-cleared, and that is very easy to do, without a ton of material cost, trust me I've done it many times. That is what I meant by it being a steal, he only had to pay 2k for it, if it was 5 or 10k that would be a whole different story.

Is it a pain in the ass for the customer? Yes. Good business practice? Hell no. Try reading my post again, I said I don't condone what the guy did. He screwed up, and I would not have done that to a customer....ever.

 

Uh,yeah, I was joking. I and I wouldn't ever expect anyone to agree to it. But still, all the power is in the hands of the craftsman holding the unfinished car and the owner really has no leverage in the situation,other than to take to car away undone.

 

Thanks also. I was just trying to get a feel on what to look for if I ever need to get something painted again.

 

Wait a minute swdobbs.....you're an accountant? And you can't understand these numbers? The guy got 90% of the work done for 50% of the quoted price.

The whole situation sucks, but I approached this thread like GotRust was my buddy, and I would be trying to get him to see the brite side of a bad situation...he did in fact get a lot of value for his $2,000. If you're dealt lemons, make lemonade for Christ's sake...

Edit: and YES, body men and the whole autobody trade are both very misunderstood. Average people can never understand why it takes so much time, talent, and materials to do good body and paint work.

 

Its done as far as the first bodyman is concerned!

"this guy should be happy with what he got for his money" tends to presume alot. Is the presumption that he wants to spend another month or more lining up talent to finish a project that is already 2 months overdue? Or is it the presumption of a bodyman (you) that it should be simple for him to finish it up himself? Which bodyman is going to responsible for any problems with the finish in a year - bodyman#1 or bodyman#2? I doubt #2 will take that responsibility on and #1 has already walked away. So the owner has no warranty for the $2k already invested.

Save the "doubt you'll try to understand the concept" remark for someone else. After 20 years in structural engineering and dealing with half-ass dead beat contractors with attitudes alot like yours, I'd guess I have a pretty good idea of how the real world works.

The reason the phrases Contractually Complete, Signed Punch List and Contract Completion Statement are common today is because of
"this guy should be happy with what he got" attitude.

Suffering through 90% finished construction jobs is why we have
liquid damage awards to owners for contractors who FAIL to finish jobs.
This is exactly the reason why surety bonds are now required and the associated rates are so high.

I'll have to try the "you should be happy with what you got" line with the next financial institution writing the percent completion check and if they aren't "happy" about where they are left, I have you explain it to them.

I got the math $2000, 2 months late and having to babysit a "professional" bodyman every other day only to end up with an incomplete job.

As far as lemons to lemonaide... I don't need a "friend" pissing down my back and telling me its just raining.

s.

 

It sounds elitist, but it's worth the money, any top brand of expensive paint. That being said, you can still make a car look pretty damn good with the cheaper paint.

Here comes a thread hijack....sorry GotRust....

 

I understand the numbers, my time and hassle over 6 months is worth way more than $2000 but I tend to be cheap. That is why I paid Havlicks in Seattle $6800 to re-paint my last car because I wanted to avoid "you should be happy with what you got" for your money. Save "the world doesn't understand us bodymen" for your therapist, I don't have the receipt in hand but I recall over 100 hours in body work for a few door dings and no jamb or trunk paint (factory color) the owner explained that the EPA built in fees/surcharges to the manufactures for even producing the drums of chemicals in the place.

Do you really think it will be done for less than $2000 more along with another 3 months? Like I said before the owner will likely have a hard time getting another shop to take it on and I bet they won't drop everything to schedule it.

s.

 

There are too many horror stories out there for this one to compete with. Be glad you got your car and parts back and the painter didn't "forget" to put hardner in the last coat. He screwed up and you got a smokin deal. You pays your money and you takes your chances. Too bad it's that way so often, but the way it is is the way it is, not the way it should be.

 

Good God...if you keep ranting you're going to have poor GotRust convinced he should hire a lawyer and do it the new American Way.....sue the bastard! Yeah, and let's go for pain and suffering compensation while we're at it. No wonder we live in such a litigious society. Save the whining for Judge Judy.

 

I didn't read the whole thread, but if the car was all done besides a good cut & buff, 2k is a helluva deal. It sucks he couldn't meet his deadline, and I have no idea why he would put such a deadline on the car. I try to avoid dealines on custom stuff. I'll give someone a general idea, but no exact date.
You should be able to get it cut & buffed for allot less than the otehr 2k you were going to spend, or buy a good buffer & compounds and DIY. Either way, your coming out REALLY good on the ordeal.

 

the painter probably figured out that he wasn't making any money off the job....and yes , i'd call it a steal at 2k.....the last full fender job i did was close to 6k....and that wasn't even stripping the car....or flames...solid colors like yellow still cost big money ....and materials aren't as cheap as they were even 4 or 5 years ago.....if you feel up to the work.....block the car with 800 grit....and take the panels to a shop to be cleared .....notice i said panels......anything that unbolts take it off.....except maybe the doors.....even if you had to pay someone 2k to reclear and buff your still into the paint job cheap.....also watch those stripes around the flames if they have been done.....un catalized 1 shot will lift in a heartbeat if its fresh....also....if they guy had a pro body shop.....that camery (or whatever was in there) insurance job probably paid more than your old car....just my 2 cents ....brandon

 

Hey swdobbs the accountant-turned-autobody expert, read the posts by bodymen on this thread that says the guy got a good deal for 2k. Don't quit your day job, unless you want to switch careers again and become a trial lawyer, you seem to be good at that!

 

If that looks 1/2 as good in person, you got a steal.

 

And for that he is wrong. I can't tell if you are defending yourself or agreeing with me. The deadline was the out of line part, BUT YOU"RE STILL WAY AHEAD OF THE GAME! Does it take an entire week to cut, buff, and re-clear? No way. But I'm telling you as a friend and as a man who can plainly see both sides. Walk away.

 

^^^ it CAN and probably should take a week to properly buff a show car. I've spent more than 40 hours in wetsanding and buffing my truck and i still don't think it's as good as it should be. But then again, i'm probably only impressing about 1% of the population that can actually see the difference.

 

accountant-turned-autobody expert - where the hell did that come from?

Day job.. attorney... hmmm thats a good one, you think that up all by yourself.

Buy you a beer if you are ever.... ah hell thats a lie. You can buy, bigshot. I'm saving for law school.

s.