Well tonight was a good night. My 430 is home and man is it a f#$*in monster!!! 730 lbs of vintage (1959) american muscle. This week we build motor mounts and then tear it down to bare block. Heres some pics of the engine and the intake and mag. Also would like to say thanks to a great guy, UncleScooby. Ron thanks so much for letting us take the engine off your hands, im trully grateful to you!!! Later Marc [/IMG] [/IMG] [/IMG] [/IMG]
what a killer motor! You've got to definitely be stoked with the 6x2 and mag. Should be plenty stout. What car are you putting it in?
awesome stuff. I'm waiting for my model A to appear out of thin air for my 383 to be put into. here's my manifold I'm going to use.
Guys its going into a 32 three window thats chopped 3 1/2 and channeled 8. Backed by a four speed. With an isky solid cam and open headers this thing out to be nice and mind blowing to hear run. later Marc
Are you sure you don't need more motor???? He he.... I can't wait to see this one done. Hopefully you got my info about using the big block chevy parts too and strokin this ***** out a bit to 475 cubes. I'm gonna give that a go with the 430 here too.
Uncle - Please tell more about the BBC stuff. A guy up my way has had a 430 for sale for a while now. I've stayed clear cuz of rebuild cost, but the torque is sure tempting...... Is BBC cheap interchange stuff...or for mountain motor build up? -Keith
Remember the 430 was also built as a 462 in its last couple of year! The 430 versions had better ports, as 462 manifolding got squashed down with ports to match to lower hood line.
This was new info to me too. I was gonna have Wiseco make my pistons but a guy just told me the other day that he had his 430 crank journals machined down to BBC specs, then used Eagle 6.8 inch rods (about $350) and off the shelf Keith Black .100 over 427 pistons to make a big crosbred monster. The Wiseco pistons were $88 each (about $700 total) plus the rods so it's probably a wash price wise but this will give you much better rods and off the shelf pistons plus the increased displacement. And we all know...."there's no replacement for displacement". That's a quote from a John Holmes movie but it relates to cars too.
Ron, if you have the journals turned down to fit BBC rods, then run .100 over 427 pistons, you will have to buy that roller cam from vintakes. But with that cam it would have to be cut to fit an early 430. What are you thinking about putting it in? Tomorrow we build motor mounts man i cant wait!!! Later Marc
To those who asked how that increases stroke. It's called "offset grinding". It is easy to see with a diagram, but I have no way of posting a diagram. Hey, is that the engine with the roller cam? If not, I think there might have been a roller cam on eBay right now. Some sort of cam. Go check it out.
What stroke does the offset ground 430 crank end up? I already know where I can get a 462, free(the best kind). Anybody have info on stretching one of these? I have been losing a lot of sleep thinking about using that in, say, a model A pickup or Tudor. The squashed stock intake doesn't bother me since I am seeing it with one of those homebuilt log manifolds. What kind of 4 spd are you going with? Would like to hear a lot more about this project. I'm excited and it's not even my project...
The roller cam is the one for sale on ebay. Vintakes is the seller if you do a search by seller id you find hes got lots of great stuff for MEL and y-blocks. We pulled a head tonight just to check things and and this bad boy still has cross hatching in the cylinders!!!! The solid lifters look brand new (very very little wear on bottoms) and I found some info on what Isky had available for MEL motors in the early 60s. Two great hot roddin days in a row!! LIFE IS GOOD. Later Marc
Oh yeah we are using a Ford top loader.The cool thing is that when we measured it out the top of the carbs will be 5" above the cowl of the 32!! BadMother Later Marc
Depends on the following factors: 1)What your journal size is to start with 2)How much has to be taken off to true the journal up 3)What journal size you take it down to 4)What percentage the offset is To give a simplified exapmle: Say I took a crank with a rod journal of 2.500 and go to 2.200. The rod journal is at standard, but needs to go .010. OK, so we do that. Now we are starting with a 2.490 journal. If we go to a 2.200 journal, with a 100% offset, then the stroke will increase .290 (.145 on the down-stroke and .145 on the up-stroke). It can be more complicated than that, but that is the simplified version. Other factors can come into play, such as crank strength, the possible exposing of oil holes (or causing them to "move" laterally too much), the available bearing sizes, and available rods (rod length, plus big-end width). Big end width choices should be made carefully because of side clearances. All this being said, the 430-462 has a 3.000 rod journal, doesn't it??? I seem to recall that. That is one reason for its relative low performance right there. Get rid of that weight by offset grinding if you can, and the engine will thank you. At any rate, I do NOT know if you can successfully take the 3" journal down to a 2.2', but if you COULD, then you can stroke the engine approximately .8", which is more than 3/4"-- almost 5/8". I bet a 430 would come out around 500 CID, and a 462 would be over 500 CID easy. Don't try this unless you do a lot of research into the feasibility for your engine.
BlownOlds..this is why I like you! Hopefully one or both of us will have this done shortly and know some answers. I picked up a whole roller setup with an Isky cam but am now kind of tempted to dump the cam and do a regrind and dump the 8x2 in favor of a 6-71 blower....as if that motor doesn't weigh enough right now! G***erkid and Plowboy can testify to that. These things are heavy sum*****es.
6-71!!!! Dont tell me you found a manifold to use one on a MEL! Ive seen pics of how people solve the problem of a the dist./mag with either angle drive or a even a chain drive of somekind. You should know that that engine you sold is in near perfect condition, did they even run it for a complete series before they pulled? Also got a 390 bellhousing that fits perfectly so its going in this weekend I will post pics of it!!!!!! Later Marc
Thanks Blownolds! I was familiar with the basic concept, but didn't know the journal size or give any thought to the oil p***age locations, appreciate the wisdom. Do you know of a website that lists journal diameters for the various engines? Now I am cursing the fact that my Dad has my old Motor's manuals... A really useful site for piston shopping is the Keith Black/Silvolite site: http://www.kb-silvolite.com/index2.php With the stock stroke and their pin height measurements and the rod length you can often figure out a stock piston that can be perverted to your own application instead of having to buy expensive custom ****. A good example is that 2.2 or 2.5 mopar turbo motor pistons can be used in my 225 slant six with the longer rods from the 198. This isn't a stroker, but there are some benefits to the rod ratio and slightly larger bore diameters ( stock is 3.4 for all slant sixes stock for the 2.2 is 3.4449 so an oversize will get you to about .085 over) With sonic checking I have heard of one race engine getting bored .130 over, so I think .085 may be pretty reasonable for street use. Even if the 2.2 is kinda small, FE engine rods or something else might work out. This is REALLY interesting. Or I'm just a geek that likes playing with numbers....
Pontiac rods=1/2" stroke something like 508 CID 800FT# a torque at 3400 rpm We used a Potvin drive and a Lay'um blower In a 91 inch wheelbase Road race car When you stood on it it went every damn direction at once I took it around the block one day and three!! YES THREE!! Police cars showed-up at the door!! They were not the understanding donut munchers you see in the movies
Wow! What pistons were you using with those pontiac rods? Tomorrow we mount the mill to the frame. I will post pics when i can later marc
Jees...! My stock "Super Marauder" was fast enough with the right gears....!!!! I couldn't maintain traction if I punched the throttle at Sixty mph in my 57 Ranchero...!!! Does anybody know what kind of numbers were pulled from the BUILT 430's...??? It had to be unreal...!
Hey This was a long time ago We used M/T Aluminum Rods I think Mickey made the pistons too It had a GM tank hydro w/adjustable stall and throttle kit made by B&M You'd pull a handful of stall stand on the brakes.When you punched the ****on it would snap your neck EVEN IF YOU POINTED YOUR HEAD FORWARD It had 33" rears even with cheater slicks it would burn em til you lifted to make it shift Sometimes if you lifted it would downshift on it's own! Honest-ta-god it WAS nasty!!!!!
Ted Cyr and Earl Canovan ("Mr. C") both ran 430's in A/Fuel.... And there was a blown 430 in a white T-bird in one old hot-rod mag. I think it was from Colorado. And, I sold my Algon injection and a blower intake and a Weiand timing cover to a guy who had a Willys g***er back in the day. He ran it injected back then, but since I was selling the blower intake to him, he said he was going to go ahead and go blown this time. He was from Canada. This was probably 10 years ago now...
According to the data I found here: http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/m-table-c.htm the rod journals are 2.60 , but that still leaves a lot to work with. Looks like most Pontiacs are 2.25, so they are a good choice so far. The chart also lists some rod widths, so I'll see what kind of possible combo's I can figure out when I get a chance. He has no rod width listed for the MEL, anybody have it? Randy
I just consulted my trusty (and crusty) Chilton's... looks like the rods are indeed 2.600. The mains are 2.900. My bad. Still, the theoretical stroke increase by going to a BBC journal and with 100% offset grind would be a max of .400. On the other hand, real-world situation dictates that you'll probably take .010 off the crank journal from where it is currently. That would mean you'd have a max stroke increase of .390. On the other hand, you could also gain a little stroke by going to a .010-.020-.030 undersize on the BBC bearing. Wait a minute, I don't have another hand...
I was going to base my workup on .390 Thanks for the backup, wasn't sure of the source, having never used it before. I have a 60's Motor's manual coming... So far existing KB Hypereutectic (sp?) .060 over pistons meant for putting a 440 crank in a 400 (RB into B) Mopar look interesting for one. I need to know the stock deck height and stock pin height to be accurate. On another forum I found some discussion of the deck height but no answer. I also found a mention of FE rocker gear interchanging. Is it true? I also saw something about 430 heads having bigger ports than 462 heads and that it was easily possible to go 4.500 on the bore. Anybody have hands on here? Thanks for your help Blownolds! I haven't actually done any of this and your experience is worth more than all the reading I've been doing. That road race car sounds vicious. Got any pics of it?
A lot of FE gear will fit on a MEL. Rockershafts, rocker arms, lifters, are all interchangable. My 430 has an all isky valvetrain, pushrods, rocker arms, valve springs, solid lifters, and the cam. 1958 and 1959 430 heads have the larger intake runners, starting in 1960 the ports were smaller.
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