Technical OK to mount slave cylinder upside down?

Me and my boys (10&12) were having a discussion on which way is "up"
Seem simple right?
It's quite the paradigm when you really get into it.
It gets really really interesting when you grab them and turn them upside down, then ask them where they are pointing and then get into why "up" has no "direction" or frame of reference. They they get real specific and technical as the can and start talking about gravity.
Then I levitated (in possession of anti gravity) the styrofoam and "now which way is up" on the styrofoam balls that were slowly rotating.


Simple 5th grade stuff, take a bottle and stick it under water -opening down & Now get the air out of it. Take the same bottle and hook a garden hose to it, and get the air out. Hell put 1200 psi on the hose and try to force the air out.

 

Why is left now right in the mirror? Or is it?

 

IMO and oranges to apples comparison. The ‘bottle under water........with a pressurized garden hose attached” mimics my ‘pressurized bleeder valve’ but lacks the equivalent of the hose to the M/C which has become, in actuality, the ‘bleeder outlet’ . That is how the air escapes.......

Ray

 

Is up only in one spot on earth?

 

It’s the same everywhere, relative to the Earth’s surface.....not an absolutist concept.

Ray

 

That explains why the person at the North Pole that has his finger pointing up looks opposite of the person at the South Pole doing the same when viewed as a whole.

 

Kinda the same principle for ‘gravity’.......it’s relative to where you are.

 

So poke a hole in the bottle right next to the garden hose. Just make sure both the hose and hole are pointing away from up. You can see the air

 

And That's why I did the anti gravity show

 

I submit what you will see is the pressurized liquid becoming turbulent in the chamber, mixing with the air ......resulting in the exiting of the liquid with the air bubbles in suspension until all that remains is liquid. I think the volume/pressure of the incoming liquid stream may have to be relative to the volume of the chamber to achieve sufficient turbulence to break down the air into bubbles in suspension.

Ray

 

Bleeding aside, I had a problem with " what's the port for with the yellow plug in it?"

 

As I have said before and others have too that they can be mounted upside down..Mine is and works fine..Pressure bleed from MC or Bleeder, works either way..A real good way is to use a vaccuum bleed at the MC the air will go to the MC and get replaced by Dot of your choice..Could always crack the line at the port if higher than bleed..Yeah I ignored the op's yellow plug question cause I figured he was porking us..We'll fall for none of that, above page is traditional..

 

Boyle's Law is a giant red herring. This isn't about compression of gasses, it is about fluid dynamics. In any sufficiently viscous material, I can suspend dissimilar materials in it, and they will be subject to the same* flow properties. For example, take a river and sprinkle in some sand... watch the sand travel down the river (with eventual fallout due to its greater mass, of course)... that's the "down" version of gravity. For the "up" version, release a gas in the river... watch the bubbles travel down the river (with eventual... perhaps much faster... fallout due to its lesser mass). The fact that the bubbles (or the sand, or whatever) have mass (and they do), is the very reason they are affected by the flow of the other material. If this example still doesn't sink in, consider that a human body with full lungs will float. Go down to your nearest flowing river, take a deep breath, and swim to the bottom. Then, just let your bouyancy raise you to the surface. When you get to the surface, you'll find you have to walk back where you left your towel... even if your name is Boyle.

/2 cents

 

I deleted it......the ‘adulation’ was a little embarrassing.....

Ray

 

Well I guess this thread perfectly explains why I've never had the opertunity or occasion to use one of these exotic bleeding systems. Pressure bleed, vacuume bleed, and all that. I really would like to try one someday but so far everything bleeds right as rain around here and there's just no need. I guess that is because we put bleeders where they are supposed to go, refuse to build in air traps, and don't use the goofy thru frame connectors. Either that or my shop is located on some wierd worm hole in the space time continuum and all this great physics got a variance on this address.

This upside down bleeding, fluid dynamics, boyles law stuff ,,,, well I do wish someone would tell them damn ford Throwout bearings to pay attention. And why doesn't the air in a thru frame brake fitting obey all this nincompoopery? I mean it's just like the river analogy so the air ought to just be happy to flow right on out.

 

“Either that or my shop is located on some weird worm hole in the space time continuum and all this great physics got a variance on this address”


You mean you didn’t know!!

Cleveland is the Center of The Universe!

Ray

 

Thanks for all the replies! Just to clarify, physics wasn't my top priority in high school. It ran a distant second to cars, chicks and partying. It would be easier to mount this upside down but after reading some of the comments, I'll fab a bracket and mount it right side up.

The issue is...…...it's really hard to push in the clutch. The master is '62 Chevy pickup. It's split so one side supplies the brakes with fluid and the other supplies the clutch slave. The current slave is a factory 7/8" Thunderbird Turbo Coupe unit. When the entire motor/trans/clutch/slave setup was in my daily driver Mustang, it worked flawlessly. Now in the roadster, it's very hard to push in the clutch. The only things that were changed was the master and feed line to the slave. Feed line is a braided S/S brake line.



Yes, I bench bled the master and also the slave. Also, swapped the residual valve from the left side to the right for the brakes. I bought the matching '62 Chevy pickup slave and will try to mount that. There's probably less than an 1/8" difference in circumference between the two slaves so the volume should be pretty close. Not sure if mounting the '62 unit is gonna help or not.

 

I had a BMW 2002 years ago that someone had but the wrong slave on, the bleeder pointed downward. The clutch worked, but always felt spongy and not proper, but it "Worked". We tried bleeding it, not knowing it was the wrong part and assuming BMW was smarter than us (Hey I was only 17 at the time). Well, eventually it failed and when I got the new one, the bleeder and hose were on top. Same bore and stroke, but when we put this one in, the pedal felt much better and the travel to engage/disengage was decreased drastically. I guess all those air bubbles never found there way out over 3 years ......

 

Just to add a little more to this. When I bled the brakes/clutch system on my car I filled the m/c without bench bleeding and would push the clutch and brake pedal down about an inch or so and then let it set while I did other things to the car. Continued to do this until I could feel a bit of resistance in the pedal. After that I loosened the bleeders one at a time and let it set until fluid was present and then closed them up. Back to doing the pedal thing for a while and then back to the bleeders. Took a while, but I had other things to do to the car so it wasn't a big deal. All the air finally worked it's way back to the m/c and I have good clutch and brake pedal. And i didn't have to get the ol lady to help! Probably won't work if your m/c is under the floor. D

 

Apparently math wasn't your strong suit either......physics was a distant fourth!

btw...I had pretty much the same curriculum as you did.....

Ray

 

The difference is diameter of the master and slave bore is a very important component in both the amount of pressure applied and the travel of the fluid. I changed the clutch master in my '32 from a 3/4 to a 13/16 - only a 1/16" difference and the amount of pedal travel necessary decreased dramatically. The other thin is the pedal leverage of your Mustang may have been entirely different than what is in your hot rod, and this will make a big difference as well.

 

In my best Steven Hawkins voice............This is making my head hurt

 

Now we're talking about flow instead of pressure?

It was you, in post #13, that said "under pressure, bubbles flow just* like fluid."

In post #43 you switched it up and are talking about the flow of a viscous fluid. Flow and pressure are two different things, and you may have them confused. Of course you are correct in that, if a fluid is flowing fast enough it can overcome the ability of a bubble or a grain of sand entrapped in that fluid to obey the laws of physics, BUT you are not correct in your statement that says "under pressure, bubbles flow just* like fluid."

 

If you ever need to have a retina reattached, if nothing else you'll get an interesting physics lesson as part of the deal. After reattachment a small gas bubble is usually placed in the eye temporarily to help hold everything in position while healing. Over the course of a couple weeks the bubble shrinks and disappears as the gas is absorbed into the vitreous fluid (eye-juice?).

But while the bubble is visible, it appears to float to the bottom of your eye. Which is more than slightly disorienting. And the other interesting thing is that, in my case at least, they did the surgery using a local anesthetic.

 

I'll remember the above page till yesterday..

 

In Episode 4, the Empire's Battle Cruiser made a lasting impression as it appeared to be passing below a planet. But if you were on the surface of the planet it would be above you. Things that make go hmmm.

They don't have brakes to bleed but if they did you would need a vacuum bleeder @31Vicky with a hemi

 

I was trying my best to explain but spellcheck hampered my efforts. I temporarily mounted the slave cylinder with one bolt only so that I could remove the slave pushrod. I then used a 1/4" drive nut driver to push against the piston on the slave cylinder and after pumping a few times, the air escaped upwards into the reservoir. No laws of physics was suspended at any time in this attempt. Works really slick. Some of the new clutch slave cylinders don't have a bleeder.

 

Physics does not need to be complicated here. Just follow the basic law. This is why I asked do bubbles go up or down? and think no further about it. As for the truck master, and I'll need backing up on this. Isn't the left camber for the brakes and the right for the clutch (when sitting behind the steering wheel) for intended vehicle? (1962 Truck). And when it's as you've done the gut's need to be switched from side to side to work correctly?

 

Lol just got on a computer with audio. My luck with such a drink is my Whizzer is what would be affected.

 

That's AWESOME !!!!!