Hot Rods Old Hot Rod Roadster With A New Future As A TROG Racer...?

Thanks, Zane, for keeping this thread alive! I just know that as soon as I've finished bringing it back to life as an old school highboy 'banger it'll be discovered that this old hot rod was once owned by Elvis, or Jerry Lee Lewis or somebody else famous. So please, keep looking!

In the meantime it's getting some exposure on my Arin Cee Roadster build thread as I clean it up, swap bodies and bring it back to life...to be sold to help finance my primary project, Arin's roadster. Here's where it stands as of today...

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/the-arin-cee-roadster.1025634/

 

You are making good headway considering all the heat we have lately.
The transformation has officially began.
Frank

 

Yes, the hardest part was making the decision to separate this old hot rod. It was once a proud automobile. Shame on those who did what they did to it over the years.


I'm currently going through the brakes and linkage - '40-style juice brakes on both ends with an early Camaro ('67 - '69) drum brake dual master cylinder - before I tackle the engine. Got the master cylinder replaced and the linkage sorted out, just waiting for speed bleeders and wheel cylinder kits.

Early signs are that the yellow motor is not only good but possibly a relatively fresh rebuilt. Plugs look good and the combustion chambers are clean as a whistle. Flywheel/clutch area is clean, too. Once I get the brakes done I'll pull the side cover and see what's up in there.

 

Today my high hopes for a brake system that didn't require fixing evaporated. I couldn't get the new master cylinder to pressurize the brake system properly so I knew there was trouble somewhere. I used my Mityvac to check the system section by section for blockage and found the front hoses both plugged solid with rust and debris. So tomorrow I'm off to the parts store to get new ones - three of 'em. I highly suspect that the wheel cylinders will be found full of crud as well, but I've already got kits to rebuild them if necessary. The drums will need to be turned but the bearings and brake linings all appear to be just fine. All in all I'm pleased.

 

The wheel cylinders were all rusted inside and not rebuildable so I ordered new ones, along with new brake hoses and bearing seals. The brake drums will only need a clean-up turning and all the bearings and races look just fine. Tomorrow I'll pull the rear ones apart and see if the same holds true back there. The brake system had all been gone through just before the car was put away, but everything except the shoes was ruined by sitting for so long.

 

Today I spent doing my homework and lubricating all the adjustments on the brake backing plates. It turns out that the front brakes are from a '40 - '42 while the rears are from a '46 to '48. Each requires a different adjustment procedure. Fortunately I didn't have to remove the shoes on this car so they didn't need to be "re-centered", just re-adjusted when I put the drums/hubs/bearings back on.

I also had to locate a seal installation tool that would work on the big rear wheel seals, but O'Reilly's has one for rent that will work just fine. The rest was just a lot of cleaning. Welcome to the glamorous world of hot rods...!

http://www.btc-bci.com/~billben/brakeadj.html

I also found the relatively rare wrench used to adjust the '39 - '41 front brake centering adjustments as shown in the article linked above. Found it on Ebay. I won't need it on this car but will when I get back onto Arin's roadster. It's got '41 brakes all around and needs new shoes...

 

And so, what have I learned this week...?

One: If it isn't what it isn't, that doesn't necessarily mean it is what it is.

Two: There's a lot of really terrible stuff that's been done to early Fords over the years in the name of "mechanic work".

Three: It's always better to not know what you're doing on two cars, rather than on just one.

 

The brakes on this car, although new, had not been properly installed as I discovered. I'm glad I took the time to tear everything apart and rebuild them properly. Not exactly in my timeline for this car, nor in my budget, but at least whoever buys it won't have to worry about doing the brakes.

Today I assembled all the various components I've been servicing in pieces, in the process learning how the adjustments on the 1939 - 1942 brakes work when they are done right. Whoever did the last brake job on this car totally ignored the shoe height adjustment as the setting were 'way off and the adjusters themselves frozen by rust and time. The car must have been a handfull to get stopped! This might also explain the mangled front frame horn which had been repaired not just once, but twice!

As I mentioned earlier I was able to find the special wrench designed by Ford for use on the shoe height adjustment eccentrics. The job can be done without this wrench, but it sure makes the job easy once the parts were freed up. I've attached a photo of how the two adjusters, upper and lower, are worked against each other to center the shoes and adjust them for proper operation. Not rocket surgery, but it was a technique new to me.

Everything is pretty much buttoned up and adjusted, and tomorrow I'll connect the lines, bleed the system and move on to bigger and better things...like the engine. Stay tuned!

 

Well, isn't this interesting. I knew the old rear wheel cylinders were upside down and had been for a very long time. Rotating and swapping side-for-side of the backing plates is an age-old way of adapting '40-style brakes to Model A rear axles, but what I failed to realize is that they seem to be unbleedable in this position. I got good front brakes but the rears just won't pump up. Used a Mighty Vac and speed bleeders. Neither seemed to work. I've done the searches and all I see is "maybe this and maybe that", but no solid info. Anybody out there who has solved this problem PERSONALLY?

 

Interesting thread. What sort of floor is that in your workshop and what are those little brackets welded onto the floor ?? I would be tripping over them all the time.

 

Covered in my other build thread, the shop was built from retired steel shipping containers welded together with the interior walls cut out. The loops on the floor are the original container tie-downs which have not yet been removed. I left them for use in straightening frames. And yes, I do trip over them from time to time. Thanks for the comment.

 

may sound stupid, but... bleed them at the input line.?......use the in line as the bleeder

 

This might actually work...but it isn't the solution I am looking for. It would appear that this "traditional" way of adding '40-style juice brakes to Model A rear ends is quite a bit more complex than I previously thought...if it's done right. There are a few details that seem to have been forgotten over the years that, if done properly, make this swap a real success, not just a partially successful
attempt. I intend to track them down and include them on this car. I hate half-assed hot rods.

 

There are several ways to mount the rear backing plates to the "A" axle.
You can cut a notch in the backplate and mount them in the normal position. This does make tubing connection and bleeder difficult to reach, but it can be done.
Another way is to rotate the backplate so that the notch is not required. This will leave the bleeder up top, but put the E-brake cable in an odd position.
A third method is what you have, with the plates mounted upside down. However, they have not done it properly. The backing plate needs to be modified with another bolt hole to mount the cylinder. That way the cylinder can be mounted with the bleeder on top. You do need to swap cylinders form side to side so that the large bore faces forward. Long shoe is also forward.

 

Miracle of miracles! I've got brakes! The secret was revealed by metalman here on the HAMB. Just mount the '40 rear wheel cylinders with the bleeders up by raising the big hole in the backing plate with a die grinder until the wheel cylinder bolt holes line up. It can only go one way. Then hook 'em up and bleed 'em normally. Simple, right...?

 

With the steering box and column out of the car for the body swap I decided now would be a great time to adjust the steering box. I didn't know it would take four hands...

 

With the brakes buttoned up I decided it's time to begin on the motor, and the first step to getting the motor running is to pressure-wash it along with the rest of the chassis. Did that today, so once it's dry I'll push it back inside and begin the inspection...

 

Slight change of plan. A couple of my buddies showed up unexpectedly with altogether too much energy so we decided to put the new Brookville body onto the frame...just to see what it will look like. Well...it looks great! So I'm thinking this might make a really great TROG race car. I can always put the fenders, running boards, headlights and top on later. What do you think? (Car is for sale. PM for info or see HAMB Classifieds)