Projects Opinion Poll:Built or Unbuilt

Hello,

In order to answer this question, one has to include all of the nice hot rods and custom cars on specific dealer’s websites. They do not allow crappy stuff on the sites, or at least the quality or no quality stuff on craiglist or facebook. Both places not always satisfactory or reliable. So, there is that. But, at least if one includes the various dealers, then one would get a fairly accurate spread of choices.

Back when my wife and I needed a hot rod for our photo business, we only had the classified section of the local newspapers. Big city and small towns had newspapers that usually had ads. Also, the ever present Pennysaver free paper. So, I guess, the Pennysaver is/was about the same for advertisement truth as the local papers.

With the websites posting almost a ton of old hot rods, the choice is so varied and widespread. But, one has to inspect the ones for a future purchase. Several places have top quality hot rods, but their prices are also in the top tier of those sites. The choice is yours. Most of those top dealers hot rods need very little to make it our daily drivers. Some of the other dealers have hot rods, but many changes are necessary. But, at least you have a good start from a certified seller with a business background and rules for such sales.

Jnaki

When we saw our 327 powered 1940 Ford Sedan Delivery, it looked complete and ready to drive. we were happy to have found one and it had what we required, an SBC motor, A/C and an auto transmission. It also had a finished upholstery inside, including insulated upholstered walls of the rear cave.

We were at a point that it looked and drove ok, but it was partially finished and we could do the rest. After we got it home, we realized it looked great and ran fine, but the handling/braking was not up to our standards. Like stopping in a short distance and not wandering all over the driving lanes.

So, it took us and my friend who was a front end specialist to get everything right and make it so it was like a new car off of the showroom floor. I could not keep my wife from grabbing the keys at first hand, so she could go do her errands, see friends and just cruise around. If she like driving it, then all is well with the world of hot rods, ours included.

Craigslist and Facebook are suspect as to validity of product and who is responsible for the postings. It may look good and sound good, but all closer inspection is going to be necessary.

Note:

My wife and I found a four door 1940 Ford Sedan in North Carolina, at a dealer. It was everything we wanted for our next round of hot rods. We were not in the mood to build one from scratch, so our bank account was ready for any cost, as long as we liked it and could be our daily driver at our older age timeline. We were going to fly out to the East coast and drive it home to So Cal as part of a vacation road trip. Things happened in our family and the sale never went through. So much for family life and expenditures. YRMV

 

Number 3 for me. A man has to know his limits. I don’t have the knowledge or ability to take on a full project.Also I get the most fun out of driving it. Jmho.Snowman ⛄️

 

Depends what you're wanting in the end, what your budget is, & what your skill set is...

I like to buy cars that run & drive, but need some tinkering and work and I get to make it "mine" in the process. The instant gratification of cruising it and being able to mess around with it can be fun.

However, in the case of my F-100, I could not find one that had everything I wanted and exactly how I wanted it, so it's a scratch build 100% by me in my garage.

If my pockets were deep enough I'd have no problem buying a fully finished vehicle.

 

Third option because of the current legal situation here. Scratch builds are for all intents and purposes illegal. Things like engine swaps are iffy on cars younger than 1994, when the law changed to a type-approval scenario. BUT inspections are only required at change of ownership. So the ideal is something pre-'94, already on the electronic registration database and with all the necessary papers, preferably with the engine you want already in, or at least the kind of vehicle into which the desired engine could be swapped without major surgery, and which is in a condition that'll go through roadworthy right away. Once it's roadworthied and registered on your name, it can be blown apart and rebuilt in a wholly different way.

I've even been modelling '90s Japanese 1-ton pickup frames, turned backwards and pinched, as a basis for something in a Model A idiom. The kick-up over the rear axle becomes a front Z. I'd just need to careful not to modify much anywhere near the VIN stamp on the frame.

 

I was a 1, 2, 4 guy for decades now I'm a solid 3.

 

You can disagree. Some say it's a free country. If a feller wants to buy his or her hot rod, that's fine for them, as I said in my original post. Those people mighta done work to pay for it, as you point out, but they still didn't do THE work.
So we can disagree on this. Doesn't change the way I feel about it.

 

And that's fine, you can feel that way. But I would like to point out just how inherently ridiculous such a feeling is, because it is about the only thing we take such an attitude towards.

If I go to a friend's house and it's a nice place to live, I don't think, "Nice place...but did you BUILD it?" The same can be said for pretty much any other material possession. A Rolex watch. A Gibson guitar. A Hermes bag. Even car parts themselves like an Edelbrock intake or MSD distributor. In fact, the fact that you did not build it, and it was instead manufactured by a reputable company known for producing quality items, is what gives it additional value, in addition to the premise that high quality items can be prohibitively expensive to acquire and not everyone can swing it.

Yet somehow if someone buys a completed car or contracts a professional shop to put one together for them their achievement is somehow diminished because they didn't turn the wrench themselves? Comical. Jesse Barratt that painted my Olds is a better painter than me the same way I'm a better lawyer than he is. Additionally, your notion that it's more impressive to build than buy is only appropriate if the car turns out equally nice. Then you have a solid argument. If you're talking about the people that slap a "built not bought" sticker on the cracked vent window of some clapped out 4 door shitbox that hardly runs and has paint that waves back at you, then I vehemently disagree in principle.

Speaking of law, in litigation we have a concept called "proximate cause". Proximate cause is the legal concept for the foreseeable connection between an act and an injury that is strong enough to make a defendant liable, even if the act wasn't the only or last cause of the harm. It differs from "actual cause" by focusing on whether the type of harm that occurred was a foreseeable result of the defendant's actions, not just that it was a factual cause. It applies here. If a car gets restored, it was the builder's actual work that restored it. However, the proximate cause of that restoration was the customer wanting to have the car restored, having the necessary funds to achieve those ends, hiring the builder, and actually paying the shop. All of this occurs before the first welding arc is ever struck or bolt is turned. Therefore, the customer has the most important part of the job, which is actually paying for it. Without that domino falling, nothing happens further down the chain.

 

@57JoeFoMoPar The whole thing is nuanced.
You have the person who commissions the build, selecting all the details or having the builder and stylists work up the plan.
You have the person who sees a nice done car that checks all their boxes and purchases it. They acknowledge that it they are the current caretakers.
You have the person who buys a done car and makes changes to suit their taste and avoid being recognized as that car.
All reasonable and honest.
Where it gets dark is when the new owner doesn't credit past work or even claims it was their work.

There aren't many of us that can do it all.
The singer who plays solo and wrote the song.
The band who work together to write, compose and play.
The singer who selects a piece of music to perform.
The band who covers something they admire.
The 'artist' who rips off someone else's work.

 

I'm a solid 3 but the difference between building a hot rod and building your own house is a false equivalent. It would only be equivalent if you were a builder talking with other builders, and then had someone else build your house. (Which would be difficult to explain, lol.). The guitar thing too. I didn't build my Martin or upright bass, but I've steamed them apart and replaced broken necks, tops, fingerboards and put um back together. Your average guitarist ain't doin that kind of work without fuggin it up.

I built cars in the past. I bought my current, and did a couple small upgrades, and do the upkeep myself.

But that's not the same as building one. And working for the money to buy it, for me, is not in the same ballpark as building one. Not even in the same parking lot of the ballpark..... Building or rebuilding a car and doing it right requires a vast amount of knowledge, skill, patience, swearing, and sometimes beer....

 

Agreed. But I think the amount of people who are trying to take credit for the work of someone else is extremely minimal, and is also separate and apart from people who garner accolades for a car they didn't build.

 

I was the guy that usually started with a junker but now that I have had a bunch of health problems I've slowed down, I'm just trying to keep what I have running, I don't know if I will ever take on another project but I'm still looking so, Who knows? HRP

 

Never the first choice. I'm doing that now (first time) and I've learned a huge lesson. Stripped, wrecked, and rusty floors. Never again. That being said, I wouldn't buy someone else's finished car so I am option 2

 

@57JoeFoMoPar buying a finished pro built car isn’t the same as building your own car. Nothing wrong with buying a finished car as matter of fact there is one in the HAMB classified I’d buy if I had room.
Hot Rodding and Customizing was started by people who couldn’t purchase what they wanted so they built what they wanted. This is really the core of our hobby. We all have different skill levels, very few can do everything. When I do something myself vs buying I have a higher sense of accomplishment and pride. When I attend car shows I generally migrate towards the home built stuff, I love listening to how they did things and often I learn something. With the built cars the owners were just the commissioner of the work no real in depth stories.
Things like bodily physical limitations, lack of a shop and equipment etc etc often determine what state of completion a person can and should purchase.
This is my opinion, my opinion and $5 should get ya a cup of coffee most anywhere.
Dan

 

I voted for number one. I think I like something more along the lines of garage art, with most of the parts there, than starting from scratch. I don’t really like finished cars with nice paint, or even mostly finished cars.

WIP for the win. I’m not motivated enough to actually finishing a project, but I do like picking away. My problem, though, is that I have automotive ADD. I just start rolling on some project when something comes up needing my immediate attention.

The MaxAir line is showing up today so I can get rid of the air hoses running to the back room of the shop where the two post lift, rotisserie, and blast cabinet. It will likely take the better part of the week to set that up, meaning no work on the actual project cars

 

I agree with you but I also think it's a bit short-sighted to think that pro-built cars were not prevalent in the relevant time period. We know of names like Winfield, Barris, Westergaard and the Alexander Brothers because guys commissioned them to put cars together, or at minimum, perform serious modifications they couldn't perform themselves. Think of a guy like Bob Hirohata or even moreso, Larry Earnst, as examples. Bob Hirohata worked in plastics. Larry Earnst was a priest. We know Barris built the cars, but both great cars exist today because those men commissioned them.

 

#2 for me for sure, #1 if the circumstances are right for me.

I don’t have the funds for a finished car and if I did I would probably wind up changing a bunch of stuff. I don’t have the focus to build something from scratch and I truly admire those who do.

My current ride reliably moves under its own power so it is no longer a project car. My 39 Zephyr is coming in the shop this winter and the first thing I’ll do is get it running reliably. I am trying to get better and more expedient as I go.

 

I agree Joe, the whole industry was built by guys like Elderbrock, Isky, Barris, Watson etc. however most cars were built by the common folk so to speak as most couldn’t afford to purchase these works of art. These common folks built Jalopies and basic or mild customs, and often built their own headers, intakes, etc. Most of the pioneers in the speed and custom industries started out tinkering with their ideas many built empires around their ideas. I’m not saying that purchasing cars, parts and what not is bad or wrong Not at all! Building your own intake, headers, car etc. vs purchasing a finished product is a whole different experience. It really boils down to creating vs buying or commissioning something. For many the satisfaction of creating something is the ultimate reward.
Dan

 

I've built and sold a few cars and trucks. The last truck I built I sold to a guy that took it home, changed the tires and wheels, and several other things. The new tires and wheels actually improved the appearance of the truck, it didn't look like the truck I sold him. A couple of months after I sold the guy the truck and he had made his changes, I attended a car show and saw the truck. I was actually shocked that the guy had a sign made that stated I built the truck! I have never had that happen before.

The truck did have a tire problem, he had gone through 3 sets of rear tires and collected a few "police awards" which resulted in him deciding to sell the truck. The first thing he did was call me and offered me the first opportunity to buy the truck back. That was my 2nd shock from him, never had that happen before either. I thanked him for the chance to buy it back, but then gave him permission to sell the truck.

I ran into the truck and its new owner earlier this summer at a different car show. The new owner had the sign displayed that stated I built the truck! That was the first time I met him, I ended up being parked right beside him. We had a great conversation. He did tell me he wasn't having any problems with the rear tires, or police awards. I told him it was OK if he didn't want to display the sign. Honestly, 4 years after I sold the truck, the sign seemed kind of weird to me. The truck still looks pretty good, the guy uses it like I would have, if I would have fit in it better.
I build my stuff to be great drivers, I never built them to be a feather in my cap. If a different owner wants to take credit for a vehicle I built, its OK with me. I know who built it if I see it running down the road, it is enough for me to know its still on the road.

 

I like to buy a clunker or stalled project. The older I get, the less I like dealing with rust so I will pay up some to deal with less of that. The build is all the excitement for me so a finished bought car would not be as fun.

 

Obviously not all built cars are 'pro built' either. I couldn't afford such a thing in my wildest dreams, and if I had that kind of cash, honestly a hot rod isn't what I'd buy...

Lots of builders out there nobody ever heard of, like whoever built my car. I heard from the guy I got mine from it was a guy in Kalamazoo, but who knows. But look at the Trojan T by Harry Markiecki. A super prized built T, and few have ever heard of him. I only know him cause my dad lived next door to him as a teenager. Moriarty knows because he owned the car at one point. But to an average hot rodder, they would have no idea who that is.....

 

Depends… I could easily pick 1, 2, or 3… But, I picked 2 since I like working on stuff. That doesn’t mean I haven’t also picked 1 and 3 and may have one of each currently.

 

You certainly seem to have a burr under your saddle about this, as you have gone to ridiculous lengths to to show how ridiculous you think I am.
The house analogy is pretty amusing. Yeah, I bought my house. I do my own upkeep and renovations. But then I'm not on a custom "hot rod" home site talking about it either. My wife drives a bone stock Toyota that we didn't build. We bought it. It's a transportation device. Nothing more. I'm certainly not talking about that on a "hot rod" toyota site saying "Looky here what I bought!!

I build my sh!t. I always have. Yes I use store bought parts. I make a lot of my own too. My VW drag racer is a showcase of custom "Mike Made" parts that nobody sells. It was a 90 point show car when it was fresh too. Not so much anymore after having made a couple thousand trips down the track. Most of 'em well over a buck-30, a couple at over 140mph. A rear air cooled engine VW. 2.3 liters making over 400 hp. And yeah, I built the motor. A lot of store bought parts, but I had to make 'em fit and work together. A bunch I made too.
I've lost at a couple car shows in a so-called "Race Car" class to pro built machines that never turned a tire on a race track of any kind. But man-o-man, they were purty! Goes with the territory I reckon.

Even Ol' Furd has a bunch of "Mike Made" parts.

But what I find ridiculous is when someone spends $100K and more on a pro built machine, knows virtually nothing about it, and considers a 40 mile trip a "reliability run." Too afraid to drive it any further because they can't fix what might go wrong. If that's the thing they get pleasure from....fine. Don't expect me to offer up much respect to anyone other than the original builder.
But, I will help 'em fix 'em!

Ol' Furd by contrast was a derelict brought back to life entirely by my own hands. It does not win at any car shows. It's a driver. I know every last nut and bolt, every wire, every component. It's made multiple big mile road trips including one of 3500 miles this last May, followed up with another of 550 miles a couple weeks later. Yeah, I had some concerns along the way, but I never pulled anything out of the toolbox other than a flashlight. THAT is my pride and pleasure.
Am I really ridiculous?

 

I really appreciate those who turn a pile of scrap into a vehicle, but I usually start with a pretty good condition, intact one. No doubt the bragging rights and pride of ownership is rewarding for the ones I did the hard work on. In the cases where I bought a “completed” one I always credit what prior owners had done, after all most of us are just the current owner in a string of them in the vehicle’s history.

As far as buying a finished one, it does not always mean they are done correctly or optimally. My last “finished” buy took a couple of years of test drives and changes to get to where it does everything right. I did not do the basic build - I did improve it from a show queen to a real car and after all if they don’t drive they aren’t worth much to me.

 

my get up and go got up and went a long time ago. I'd buy a car that's ready to drive.

 

LOL I’m feeling you!

What I have noticed is that the older I get my time is more taxed than it was years ago. My wife is 13 years older than me and is persnickety as hell, my middle aged son is autistic nonverbal and requires lots of attention, then toss in a senior Sheprador (18yo and still shuffling) and a English Bulldog puppy that is hard headed and doesn’t have the sense God gave a turnip, my spare time is not as plentiful as it used to be. Albeit it’s entertaining and I’m having a blast but dammit son!!

I’m hoping that I have a few more years of builds in me so I can get rid of some of these parts my dad and I have hoarded but I still have to finish up this remodel we are doing now.

 

I've always done scratch builds or clunkers that need everything, which makes them scratch builds IMHO. That being said, I hate rust repair so I look for projects that need little to none of that shite, thank you very much. I really enjoy the process. The thought, fabrication, parts hunt, restoration of old parts, etc. I have no problem farming out work that is beyond my skill set like body and paint or critical welding that my safety depends on. I can weld just fine but I don't do it everyday and know people that do so it just makes sense. All that being said, I like to DRIVE my junk so I also tend to leave them rough enough so I don't care about the errant stone chip, etc. LAST thing I want is to worry about my high dollar paint work. I had a beautiful '66 Mustang that I built 30 years ago. Real Hot Rod. Very fast Porsche killer. Ford was still stamping all the sheet metal, so it got 1/4's, fenders and professional paint. Two weeks after it was painted some asshole keyed the entire side of the car while it was parked for 10 minutes at the deli. Never again for that kind of worry.
Andy

 

Awe man that is a bummer. I had a friend when I was in high school that had a really nice 50 Ford 4dr he used to take it to shows and stuff and some jack wagon got into the car and was cutting the seats up because he didn’t like old cars Luckily there was an officer coming out of the BBQ place next door about the time Denny was pulling the guy out of the car and that saved the idiot from getting annihilated.

 

My current 63 Rambler project has taken a lot more than I could have thought and will still need some work I will probably have to farm out. Yet i like it and will keep going once I'm heal up (kidney removed 3 weeks ago)

 

Wow that’s pretty major you might need to listen to the doctors and take your time getting back at it again. My dad had a shoulder replacement surgery and was cutting the grass 3 days later because he didn’t want to wait for me to get over to do it for him. He was a tough old bird which was a good thing seeing that you could never tell him anything
Get to feeling better and if I was closer I would be more than happy to help out on the car

 

You sound like a pretty important guy to yourself..........I'm not impressed, you blow your horn too loud.