If you change the frame you will add work to making the body mount holes line up, and getting the body re-shimmed to the new frame. If your cars body lines all line up will, no way I would change the frame! Also, with a fully boxed frame, it is more difficult to use stock type (F1 or F100) steering. I would use Vega steering with the boxed frame.
Some guys actually mount the box on top of the frame like this one. Granted this is on a race car so it is function over form, but I have seen more then one done this way over the years. There are actually two schools of thought on frame boxing or partial boxing. Some guys like the frame to have some flex, if helps keep the tires firmly planted or so it is believed. One thing that I remember from when I was a young man is that a lot of frames only got partially boxed. Normally that would have been from the frame horns to the transmission mount. Or basically the front half of the frame.
Good grief ,so if I make a frame from Chinese steel can I weld it with my Chinese welder using my Chinese helmet. ?? If I box my stock frame made with 23 different kinds of steel using Chinese steel , does that make it better because now its 24 kinds of steel.?
Here's what I did on my '31. Drilled anchors into the concrete to attach the turnbuckles and chain (4 points on each side). Leveled it and went at it. Came out well, but GO SLOW! Still have the stands, brackets and chain if you go this way and can use them.
If it was me I would opt for a set of Deuce rails if the car is going to be a hiboy,if it were full fendered I would stay with the original frame. HRP
If someone asks, I be more proud to say it`s an A frame than saying it`s a store bought frame. This is Hot Rodding, not a call 1-800-number and charge it on a credit card kind of build. Or is this what we---no-- this hobby is turning into. If it is, then I don`t like it.
I'd check out boling bros before speedway. Club member just got a frame from them. It's stockish looking and I was surprised at the price. Made in the Golden state. Sent from my LGLS992 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
The Boling Bros build a sweet frame and they are or can be built to order. With a speedway frame you just get generic, nothing wrong with that but if you have to alter it to be more better you may as well work with what you got. This^^^^^ we all like what we like. I like things custom built, but in a world of cookie cutter cars it is always pleasant to see someone do it a little different. Of course this is coming from a guy that would strap a 426 to a skate board if that was what was available. LOL The block and displacement could be around 327. If I had a large h journal 327 crank ( or a 307 crank for that matter) and the right pistons my 355 could be a 331 as easy as a freshening. LOL Here is a side note on new V old or old and refurbished. We have few steel mills in this nation, not like when we were kids and American steel, made with American mined iron ore was plentiful. I have some 18 gauge sheet in the garage that came with a Pittsburg label on it when I purchased it in the early part of this century. It is Japanese steel marketed under the Pittsburg Steel label, at least the label said in the fine print product of Japan. When we first started using Japanese steel in the early '70s it was awful stuff, all full of carbon, hard to weld, brittle. Sometimes it would laminate and peel off. Then after a decade or two it would compete with American made steel. When you mix modern steel even if you can find American steel you are not going to get the same alloy as was used in the '30s when our cars were new. They seem to mix fine perhaps not as perfect as a true metallurgist would like, but I am just a broken down old mechanic and don't know any better.
Paul buy a frame. Put your body on it and be happy. This thread is full of blabbering about steel by guys who obviously don't know anything about it. Unless the A stock frame is absolutely perfect it can and will have stress cracks, loose rivets, twists, rust, wears and who knows what else. Steel is steel, regardless of where it is manufactured. I have personally cut into bars of 4340 HTSR manufactured in the US and had it split lengthwise for 10'! Metal is manufactured all over the world. South Africa, Brazil, Canada, Japan,Germany. I have made lots of helicopter parts from Chinese magnesium alloy, gorgeous stuff. The US made bars had inclusions and voids and failed NDT(non destructive testing)
You can buy poor quality materials from anywhere, and our industry has gone to hell. There was a time that we produced a quality product here in the states. The problem is that we are employed by people who count beans and don't take the quality into consideration. When the bottom line becomes an issue the materials that we use are the first to suffer.
Well, not everyone has a full blown shop or factory in their backyard. A lot don't have the time or ability to drive around looking for ****. Some things have to be purchased from vendors. I have yet to see a Hot Rod where nothing wasn't out sourced. As long as the out come is a cool, safe ride, who gives a **** about where the parts came from or how they were ac***ulated? Some of these closed minded at***udes are what's killing the hobby.
Right there is the best ******** answer in the whole batch. While my stock frame is probably the best part of the A I have not everyone ends up with a usable stock frame. While many on here can bop out in the shop and cut, fit and weld up boxing plates we don't actually know if the OP has a welder or knows how to use it but guys are telling him he has to do this and that welding. A Speedway or other frame makes a lot of sense if you don't have a good frame or your skills or equipment aren't up to the task. It doesn't make a lot of sense to pay a shop to do all the mods to your stock frame and spend more than you might for an aftermarket frame unless you are hellbent on keeping the original frame. Outside of aesthetics I'd say that one primary reason for keeping the stock frame is if you will be dealing with the DMV in your state to ***le the car depending on the state. Stock frame may automatically spell that it is the real deal rather than an ***embled vehicle in some states where they are real nit picky about such things. In this state there have been issues with suspect welding on frames or ch***is work and you have to have proof that a certified welder did the welding or inspected and signed off on the welding of a scratch built frame or the statement of origin from a manufacture or legit shop. A boxed stock frame with the rivets still in place doesn't have that issue though. There have been some home built rods sent home from the inspection stations because they didn't have proper paperwork on the welding of the frames. That said, build it with the pieces you feel are right and fit your wallet's budget. If you don't have a clear ***le in your name I would explore what the state says as far as ***ling and registering it though. That may need to include a visit to the inspection station to ask some questions as to how they treat a car with an aftermarket frame as appose to one with the original frame.
This is why I stayed with the stock frame and modified. Didn't want to deal with CA DMV so went to greater lengths to avoid them. It was a learning experience as well, so I would likely do it again. When you lay down 48' of bead boxing a frame you learn pretty quick.......
Mr. T Body is right- good place to practice. Go slow- tack every 6" and just go around and around ( put some good music on) A mig welder generates LOTS of heat- make sure your frame is FLAT and SQUARE. You can check this with diagonal measurements from fixed points ( holes in the frame- as far to the front and back as you can) and correct by 1/2 what the difference in the two measurements is( if you need to)
I never said I had a full blown shop or factory in my back yard. Having things out sourced is different than buying everything on-line to build a car.
I was trying to find a hot rod shop to box my frame for me. They couldn't understand why I wanted to use my old frame and didn't want a new one made. I didn't even try to explain myself. They couldn't guarantee that it wouldn't be warped. I said no thanks to that. I definitely wanted to use a stock frame and I wanted the car to be fender-less. After a bit of time and actually after reading a book on the post war Spokane hot rod scene I had a moment of clarity. What did those guys do? I kind of lost sight of that. They just did it themselves if they wanted it done and often out in gravel driveway. What was I worried about? I want to learn as much as I could as I build this car. I talked to a couple of more experienced guys and got some ideas and tips. I read lots of old post on the subject here. I have a very cramped space to work in and a bad back. So I needed to work around that. I really needed the frame elevated so I welded two long pieces of 6 x 2 heavy walled steel to my very solid welding table. I made some screw jacks with saddles and pockets to hold one end of a bessey clamp. I leveled the frame in all directions, clamped and straighten as required. I recessed the front boxing plates inside the frame rails and welded the rear ones flush. I did this partly because the frame top and bottom surfaces were not equal on a couple of parts on my frame. Not from rust or damage that's just the way it was made. The rear of the frame has a small Z so I didn't want to do it there. I welded them flush. The frame was pretty good back there and it's out of sight. It wasn't easy for me but I got it done. I live in the middle of nowhere so I didn't have any help to flip the frame and with a bad back it wasn't in the cards to do it solo with the added weight of the extra plate. This was one of the things I needed to consider before I did this. This is also why I mounted the frame elevated on my table. I would weld overhead to do the underside. I could clamp the frame down tight and do short 2" welds (at the most) all around and top and bottom. I marked out the starting pattern with soap stone so it would work out even and I would end at the same time on all frame rails. I wouldn't weld next to another weld until it was cool to the touch. I would constantly check the frame for square and level in all directions at every rotation. I'm not going to lie this was difficult and painful to do at times. haha Trying to work in a bad position at times wasn't helping me to make nice welds. I'm definitely no pro but it's all solid and in the end I got it done. Work with what you have, try to make the best plan you know how and you'll learn some cool stuff.
speedway manufacturing beware. There are lots of good aftermarket frame builders on here, my personal preference is Cornhusker Rod & Custom. He's done about 7 frames for me and all were great. Gary
This is exactly what I meant when I talked about 1-800 builds. Find a good shop to have work done to your spec`s. You never know the quality of a new part.
"Out sourced", as in purchased from a vendor. Everybody hit's the catalogs, at one point or another. There's nothing wrong with that. You do, what you have to do. So, all that 1-800 **** is just that... ****.
No offence-- but my definetion of out sourced is sending it to another shop to have work done. Or subletting it to have work done.
Talked to a friend who makes tools about this the other day. He told me old Henry steel is not even close to the metallurgic quality of today's steel. He did say that there are a bazillion types of steel, and that country of origin doesn't matter so long as the metallurgy is correct. Sent from my LGLS992 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
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