OT...Buggati fishing

WRONG! The Swiss were officially NEUTRAL during both WWI and WWII. As was Sweden. Italy was part of the Axis Powers, with Germany and Japan. Italy gave up in 1943. Not all of France was occupied by Germany, either.

Guys, read up on your WWII history. Please!

And now, back to the very wet Bugatti...

 

True, but will it produce ONE or MANY restorations?

 

I inherited George Washington's hatchet. It's an old family heirloom. I am told it is the original hatchet he chopped down the cherry tree with and over the years has had six new handles and four new heads, but it is the original hatchet.

 

And, if I use a jar of Grey Poupon will I net a Rolls Royce Phantom II with Gurney Nutting coachwork?

Swankey Devils C.C.
"Spending A Nation Into Generational Debt Is Not An Act Of Compassion!"

 

Jesus! just a LITTLE late with that one!
I dunno, but I wouldn't want to be under German or Vichy rule!
Not all of occupied Europe was indeed occupied, large areas of the Crimea were controlled by Titos Partisans, the Germans left the fascist Ustashi to control them. They failed! Three way war, screw that.
Doc.

 

Not late. Clarified.

 

Didnt read the whole thread huh.

 

I did.

 

So you were clarifying a clarified point?

 

It should be restored...

And here is the man to do it! He is a boat tail specialist!

Maybe Baron Von Bomburst was trying out a Vulgarian Chitty clone when things went horribly arwy!

 

Use Corned beef and you'll pull Morris Minors out all day!

 

Overheard at one of the big Can-Am vintage races at Road America a few years back - "45 of the original 30-some cars are here".

 

Ah Mobile, I see you got it.

 

- I first heard this here somewhere. You are talking about Theseus's Paradox. Is something still the same something if you replace each piece with an exact replica over time?

- When the hard core Shelby guys put an NOS part in, the part is indistinguishable from the original in all aspects. Especially the part number.

 

My point is that the value of the hatchet is in George Washington's ownership and usage......and what I now have in my possession was never touched by him. Do I get my concours trophy anyway?

 

a very detailed discussion of exactly that situation...

http://www.gomog.com/articles/no1judgement.html

 

I don't really like the hatchet when considering Theseus's Paradox because it only has 2 parts - the handle and the blade. A more interesting object to consider would be Mount Vernon. If over 500 years Mount Vernon was gradually replaced piece by piece as part of maintenance and maintaining it would it still be George Washington's house? There really is no clear cut answer. Even the most original cars have had pieces replaced along the way. Gas, oil, water, tires, spark plugs, wires, etc.

 

That town has too much time on their hands. Wouldn't make a very cool roadster anyway....no not EVEN WITH A "3 5 0" IN IT.

 

Or the USS Constitution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Constitution#1925_restoration_and_tour

When I visited it in the '80s the tour guide estimated that she had about 20% of her original timbers, and that was before the 1990s restoration.

 

wicked cool,,great post ,,thanx

 

my perception of "original" hinges on the amount of existing material before, during, and after repairs are done. a given thing, given normal maintenance and repairs will over time be eventually and essentially, replaced. it is the content and intent which is key; preservation of a given thing without intending to use removed or replaced parts FROM it to construct a new thing is "acceptable". taking a thing apart and using portions of it to build two or more replicas represented as the original thing is NOT.
anyway, back to the Bugatti ... google the Schlumpf Brothers if you want to hear about Bugatti hoarding. talk about your barn finds.....

 

this is the definitive case on the subject of what constitutes orginal or otherwise:

http://www.gomog.com/articles/no1judgement.html

 

The key phrase in this case is "[SIZE=+1]Any new parts were assimilated into the whole at such a rate and over such a period of time that they never caused the car to lose its identity"

I can go along with concept of the object being the same as long as the replacement of parts was over such a period of time that at no point the object lost it's original identity.

[/SIZE]

 

"Koolah!"

 

That's a BARNacle find

 

Yup, its Vol 2...... 'Escape to Neutrality'.
http://www.amazon.com/Stranger-Strange-Land-Escape-Neutrality/dp/0897472780

I just quoted myself. Thats kinda sad isnt it?

Doc.

 

Not at all, it is always good to post historical facts.

 

Best one-liner in this thread...no.. it's not a contest but u win

 

I like the analogy, that's why I used it. The argument can carry on and still lead to no consensus. However regarding cars presented as "original" when they have actually been reconstructed or reproduced the burden falls on the provenance provided. I have also seen 50 year old cars advertised as to having the original air in their tires........ still would not give $65,000 for a 51 Chevy sedan, but that's just me. As far as Mount Vernon, who cares? This is a hot rod forum, not Extreme Makeover.

 

I spent my last weekend in Ascona where the Bugatti was found... There are several stories about how the car got into the lake.

One of the stories is that the Bugatti was delivered to a french architect in 1925. He drove it around Switzerland during three years with french licence plates on because he never paid the import taxes. When that gentleman left Switzerland, he handed the keys to his guest family in Ascona. As the family considered the fact that it eventually may become their turn to pay the import taxes, they decided to dump the poor Bugatti in the lake in 1937. They pushed it over the ramp of the landing stage into the water and the car sank into the 53 meters deep water.

Another story says that the customs officials pushed the car into the lake... well that sounds a little fishy.