Just wondering if posting about tech and advice for my 302 is off topic around here. And if so, where you might recommend I go for advice. Thanks. -Scott
Your tech request thread went over 25 responses. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=527106&Forum=All_Forums&Words=6061&Match=Username&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=526694&Search=true#Post527106 How much more do you need to know? People aren't going to write you books about it here. you need to go buy some books on the motor which there are many. read them and then ask some specific questions if you still have them. I like them dude'd up like "COBRA by FORD" clones myself.
DrJ, I wasn't trying to be a smart ass. I have just had a lot of private messages telling me to take my non traditional questions and views elsewhere. Since I'm new here I just wanted to make sure this was not a taboo subject. Thanks for the input. When I have specific questions I will be sure to ask them. I pulled the motor this weekend, and my library of books is on the way. http://www.ruttencutter.com/49ford/ for photos of the salvage operation -Scott
i just checked out your photos of your car... and now... after looking at it??? WTF? why would you put a 302 in there????? that car RULES a flathead.
I just looked at your posts and I( didn't see anything (I thinkis) even remotely off topic for this board, so ignore the ball-less babies who can't even take pokes at you in public. I don't know shit about SBFs by the way, never had one apart,but they are all made out of iron steel and aluminum and run Clevite bearings when they've been rebuilt so. Ask some specifics and you'l get your answers, eventually. No one knows you enough to hate you. Some of the stuff I do know. You can get really short waterpumps to fit them under hoods without butchering firewalls. They put a rear sump pan and pump pickup in Broncos and it fits over beam axle steering and in '35-on cars easier than the front sump pan.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=508294&Forum=All_Forums&Words=6061&Match=Username&Searchpage=1&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=508294&Search=true#Post508294
[ QUOTE ] DrJ, I wasn't trying to be a smart ass. I have just had a lot of private messages telling me to take my non traditional questions and views elsewhere.... [/ QUOTE ] Oh, THANK GOD the HAMB POLICEMAN are making this website safe for all of us!!! It's a good thing we have so many dedicated asskissers around here trying to lift their "traditional hot rod and custom credentials" by helping to administer the HAMB. I for one will sleep better tonight knowing that we don't have to worry about important topics like tattoos, dead celebrities, and the rockabilly scene being pushed off of the page by stupid car posts.
I can answer your question. I won the HAMB Drags raffle engine. It is a 302 Ford. 'Nuff said? Any questions you have, someone here will answer them. Anyone gives you any crap tell them to kiss your ass!
I see putting a ford in a ford is not traditional? Tell all those jerks who PM'd ya to geet rid of there small block CHevy's. Its your car - do what you want!
I'd rather see you put a Ford in there than a Chevy..... And it is ON topic no matter what a few will say...
i have a 302 in my 30 tudor be cause flat fours are slooooow flat eights are cool but we like hotrods now dont we if you need any help my brother has a 351 in his 50 and a good friend of mine had a 302 in a 49 they have motor mounts you can order if you need some help pm me later
He has a MERCURY flathead in that car! I would kill to have a MERC flatty in my shoe. who you calling a goat blower haha I think you're all funny... lets start slinging shit b/c it makes you feel tuff... . - nobody can give a trad opinion on a trad board ha! street rods abound... no matter what skin you put on it. I think ill order up a 5.O with mustard. Just call me anti-PUSSY and get it right next time. I have a SBF and its in the right place, a 64 galaxie. I dont care whos already got a 302 in there car...thats cool... BUT this guy hasnt done it yet... If you guys support the butchery of that cool shoebox have at it... and if you think im gonna sit her on the hamb and watch it happen without saying YO... WHAT UP? Your wrong. I've said my YO WHAT UP and im done. I'd rather see him put a Y Block in that car. But a modern 302? aggghhh where am I? The hambs PUSSED out. And so have all you guys preaching SBF's... because I bet the majority of you dont own a flathead. Tuck
What's not trad about a small block ford? they were first built in late '62. that was when they were still making y blocks also.
Why is this ONE GUY'S engine swap such a big deal??? If he were lowering a Dumber-Than-Dirt 383 Chevy small block (hmmm, 400 cubes is just too much...but I want more than 350...so let's re-invent the wheel here! ) into his Ford he'd be getting high fives and friendly reach-arounds galore! It's really funny, as well as SAD! The Sunbeam Tigers, 289 Cobras and GT350 Mustangs are but a few examples of small block Ford performance milestones that took place at or before the magic 1965 cut-off date for all things traditional...not to mention the early Comet Cyclones and an odd Indy car or two! Not trad? Maybe not in EFI form...but dressed with an early intake, timing cover, period valve covers and related bolt-ons, it's at least as cool as the same formula applied to some small block Chevy powered yawner...so what gives here??? Scott...build your ride however ya want, and don't worry about it! Shit...a guy is trying to get an early Ford shoebox back on the road, and he has to have someone's PERMISSION to do it a given way??? Sheeeeesh!!! Would y'all cry so loud if he just JUNKED it??? Give him a break!!!! He never said he was gonna dump that flattie into a river or anything...maybe one of you guys could score it for your super-trad ride if you berate, insult and chide him enough!!?? Dang...try catching your flies with HONEY next time!!!
[ QUOTE ] I have a SBF and its in the right place, a 64 galaxie. I dont care whos already got a 302 in there car...thats cool... BUT this guy hasnt done it yet... If you guys support the butchery of that cool shoebox have at it... and if you think im gonna sit her on the hamb and watch it happen without saying YO... WHAT UP? Your wrong. I've said my YO WHAT UP and im done. I'd rather see him put a Y Block in that car. But a modern 302? aggghhh where am I? The hambs PUSSED out. And so have all you guys preaching SBF's... because I bet the majority of you dont own a flathead. Tuck [/ QUOTE ] Given that small block Fords were kicking around two years before your '64 Galaxy was manufactured, I'd say both SBFs and your Galaxy are traditional enough for this board--am I wrong? (BTW, a flathead-powered '40 coupe was my daily driver for years, so it's not like I haven't tasted the vibe.) Personally, I think either a Merc flathead or a SBF would be cool in a shoebox. However, a rebuild on the Merc will likely cost twice as much and net less than half the power. I know what Doane Spencer would have done...
Geez, I completely forgot the helpful bit: Scott--A good site for Ford engine-specific questions is www.fordmuscle.com.
"He never said he was gonna dump that flattie into a river or anything...maybe one of you guys could score it for your super-trad ride if you berate, insult and chide him enough!!?? Dang...try catching your flies with HONEY next time!!!" What FatHack said... Man...you guys....SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Thanks guys It's all about economics. I'll hold on to the flathead for another project. Unless somebody here really needs it, in which case I could probably be talked out of it. Maybe. I'm going to start a thread on what kind of period gear looks good on a 302. Maybe we can add it to the tech section eventually. -Scott
Hey Scott, Not sure if your mail-order library includes Tex Smith's "How to Build Shoebox Fords and Mercs", but this would be a great reference for you. There's even a chapter on engine swaps, written by none other than Pat Ganahl. Unfortunately, some of the contact info for parts is out of date, but the information is still great. I'm not saying the book is a step-by-step for every project you're ever gonna do, but it will definitely get you thinking about issues you might not have considered. Dr J brought up an excellent point about using a shorty water pump. Once you get the 302 in, you'll be surprised how little room you have between the face of the pump pulley and the radiator. You can offset the rad forward some by trimming the lower portion of the mounting ears to clear the gravel pan, and using some drilled stock for spacers. You can also gain 1.5" by using the shorty pump, which can make a big difference if you want to install a shroud for your mechanical fan, or if you want to install an electric puller. You'll want to check for clearances/compatibility with the pulleys on your 302 and also make sure your rad is setup with the lower outlet on the correct side. The only shorty pump currently being manufactured for your engine has the pump inlet on the driver's side. This is generally the case for most 289/302/351s, but some builders will actually switch to a passenger side inlet, making it possible to hookup to (supposedly more readily available and cheaper) Chevy radiators. So, before you alter your rad, or purchase a new one, make sure you know which pump you have and/or which pump you want to run. Okay, so coupla long-winded paragraphs on the cooling system in your car, and even that barely scratched the surface. Ask tons of questions and continue to "document" your project... no doubt it will serve as a great reference for the next guy who comes along and is looking to do the same swap. Oh, and if you don't have the book I mentioned, PM me and I'll see about loaning you that chapter outta mine. -murph
this is why the hamb gets so fucking gay... I like 302's... but i think all of you getting your undies wound up have lost a building sense and style.. or dont have one. The engine is just as important as the paint. you guys waffle... this kid asked my "opinion" in a PM... and I gave it to him... and razzed him for backing up from what he himself was questioning doing. He seems like a cool guy... he is intimidated by his flathead... most guys are. Why is one guys engine choice so important? Maybe hack if I can save one more period custom from being cut up and hump a fied... ill feel better. OK? That car RULES, look at the pics... dial it in and its 24 seven stiffy ride that'll get you laid in all fifty states. It has alot of potential... I said my peace... I think a *YAWN* SBC has more options and nostalgia than a 302... If a 302 is such a nostalgic period motor where the hell are all the offy, sharp, and nostalgic intakes to go with it? you can say it is... thats cool but they look better in a mustang. I thought it was strange that the hamb had a SBF for a giveaway motor... but I kinda dug what freddy did to the internals... and I like what its about. I wouldve put it in my 64. Damn you bellm haha... They were a late bloomer on the hotrod tree and didnt catch on untill we were full blown in the muscle car era. You ever see a 6 deuce intake on a SBF? your limiting your options when running a 302 straight up... and your takeing away from its "character" robbing it of soul. even if hes gonna run the flatty later like he was talking about?? Its a DIVERSION. Spend your money where it counts and come out with a cooler car in the long run. If your on limited funds and you get a 302 in your car you know damn well its staying there. My opinion its a mistake... why can't you guys respect that... Tuck
[ QUOTE ] If a 302 is such a nostalgic period motor where the hell are all the offy, sharp, and nostalgic intakes to go with it? you can say it is... thats cool ...My opinion its a mistake... why can't you guys respect that... Tuck [/ QUOTE ] Aw, I respect your opinion, ya big lug. I like flattys too. You do seem to be dissing the SBF fans who think they fit nicely in hot rods, tho. Oh, and here's a pic of the Offy valve covers on my '68 302 that's going into my '49 F1. Not shown is the Offy-equipped '67 289 that's going into my '31 roadster. By the way, got any pics of a Sharp SBC manifold handy?
[ QUOTE ] If your on limited funds and you get a 302 in your car you know damn well its staying there. My opinion its a mistake... why can't you guys respect that... [/ QUOTE ] C'mon, cry me a river, seems like the other way around. Are we establishing an economic bar here? A lucre litmus test? If he gets the car on the road with an SBF and mothballs the flatty, it's up to him what he does. Are you entitled to your opinion, of course, but don't think that it can't be commented on.
I was gonna stay outta this pissing contest (everybody gets wet ya know). I think some folks are missing the most important point - he's putting a shoebox back on the road!
Tuckster...we're friends, and I respect your opinions...I wasn't singling YOU out at all, Bro. I just thought it was kinda sad that he said he was getting PMs telling him to go away because he wants to put a 302 into HIS car... BUT...if he asks for an opinion and doesn't like what he hears, well...that's a whole 'nuther ballgame all together! I know I'M thick skinned enough to laugh when people toss out comments on MY engine swap, but some folks just ain't so laid back, I guess! I also agree with you, Jeff, that the engine selection IS a very important one, and is way too often cheesed out as imagination runs thin and the smoking mental block leads to yet ANOTHER forgettable small block Chevy powered snoozer. I was happy to see this guy willing to tackle something a little different, and to dive into an engine he previously knew next to NOTHING about...I can respect that drive and desire! All told, though...I believe that he will actually spend MORE money buying, building, dressing up, and swapping in a 302 than he would have spent rebuilding the flattie...especially after all the incidentals involved in the swap are factored in. (Radiator, mounts, trans, exhaust, wiring, rear axle, driveshaft, etc, etc.) I know I woulda been further ahead to just shit another Stovebolt into my Chevy...and it woulda been on the road by now...but that isn't what I wanted...and I think we're seeing a similar thing happening with our friend here. Flatties are cool...they always will be, but they just aren't for everyone...much like Stovebolts. I can respect and admire a period built Stovebolt six or flathead eight...but I'd never want to own or drive one! Just personal choice, Man...and it's ALWAYS been that way...even 'back in the day', as alot of rodders then weren't content to live with Flatties and Shitbolts...and opted for any 'modern' engine they could find in the quest for added power and reliability. That's hot rodding! Ain't no right or wrong...
Woah now I respect everybodys opinion. Even Tuck's. I just wanted to make sure that I was on topic. As far as the cost for a 302 vs a flathead... I think I came out ahead with the 302. At least compared to what it would have cost me to have somebody rebuild the flathead for me. With the help of a few great friends and hambers I was able to strip all of the parts off a car that somebody once was prepping for the track. So I got the 302, a C4 tranny, Driveshaft, And a 4.11 posi rear end out of the deal (that I hope will fit--Should be within 1 inch of my current rear). Not to mention the holley fuel pump that was hiding under the trunk, or the electronic ignition, and wiring looms. I'm well on my way. And if Bugman can fix the radiator that got a little road rash on the way out of the field--I should be set. Stole the bolt in motor mounts, too... now I just have to conform them to my shoebox. I think for what I want to do with the car, long road trips in the summer, a 302 is going to serve me better in the long run. If you hate me for it, so be it In the meantime, I'm going to go enjoy my car. Thanks guys. -Scott
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