So whos' the sorry ****er who left me a "negetive rep" post? What a *****-*** move--Why not leave your name or better yet, respond to what I said in the post or PM me? Scared? Have a nice day
To get OT on an OT thread... Has anyone here ever played CFS 2, Pacific Theatre? Ever notice the bias? Those who have read the "manual" know what I'm talking about... And, until I read Flyboys, I had no idea of what the mainland Japanese went through. With constant firebombings and houses made of paper and bamboo, they managed to keep fighting. I haven't read FOUF's yet... no time. Jay
Well what a great thread! I feel I need to put in my two bobs worth though. My family have a somewhat long military history, great grandfathers fighting in WWI at Gallipoli, The Somme, Flanders, my grandfathers in WWII, Kokoda, Middle East, Tobruk, El Alamine, Borneo, my father in Malaysia, Borneo (Two different conflicts, same place) and Viet Nam. Then myself Iraq, Afghanistan (Shahi Kot Valley), Rwanda, Somalia, Sierra Leone, The Solomons, Timor. PTSD seems a way of life in my family to a degree, we all volunteered so you wont hear us complain. What does get on my nerves so badly is, and please dont take this as an attack on the US, hell I wouldnt be here today if it were not for the Marines In Shahi Kot! BUT As much as the US sacrificed so to did the rest of the world. For example, Australia has sent a larger percentage of its population off to war than any other country on the planet. England has only recently paid off its combined WWI & WWII war debt to the US! The first 4 defeats the Japs suffered were at the hands of Australians in New Guinea. Do your self a favor and look up Kokoda trail in particular the 39th Battalion, 2/14 Battalion. The battle for Milne Bay, places such as Gona, Buna, Sanananda. The fist examples of the Japs cannibalism discovered by the Allies were along the track when the 2/14 began to advance on the enemy. Australian soldiers were the first to suffer the torture, *******ization and deprivation the Japs were as adept at. The Commonwealth had endured two years of war before the US became involved; our WWII was a very long 5 years. Like I said, it wasnt just you guys fighting in the SWPA. The first Japanese plane shot down in WWII was not in Hawaii but in Australian air space! If you are interested to find out what was happening between the attack on Pearl and the commencement of US aggression try to find these books. Kokoda, by Peter Fitzsimons, Kokoda, by Paul Ham, (Same name different book) Those Ragged ****** Heroes, by Peter Brune The Silent Men, by Peter Dornan,, Essence of Kokoda, by Patrick Lindsay, Less has been written about the victory at Milne bay and I cant find the one and only book I know of, so read this . http://www.defence.gov.au/army/AHU/HISTORY/Battles/Milne_Bay.htm If you dont want to buy a book on Kokoda, try this, http://www.kokodatrackfoundation.org/campaign.htm Read about such exploits as Cpl John Metsons gutsy escape while cut off from the main force. For 3 weeks Metson, shot through both ankles refused to be carried by his mates and crawled through the jungle in an attempt to escape with no other medical help other than an old blanket wrapped around his legs. Yes the US played a huge role in WWII, but not the only one. We were all working in this together and the only way final victory was achieved was by just that. Working together. Since I left the Army I have been offered the position of Senior Custodian to the Shrine of Remembrance in Melbourne. Not only the second largest military memorial in Australia but the second largest memorial in Austral Asia. Military history is as much a p***ion to me as our cars are, all I ask is that you remember we allies that fought along side you too. Doc. Paul Watson, MA. RAAMC, SASR (Ret)
Amen brother. Being an Aussy I still find it odd that one would get a medal for being injured! Too bad, Id have one with two bars!! Man then I'd brag about all the great **** I did (Didnt......) Doc.
Thanks Doc for setting the record straight. You're right, alot of people don't have a clue what you guys had to go through back then.
Maybe it is previously mentioned here so pardon me if so. You guys who are Paul Tibbets fans, check out "Duty" by Bob Greene.
A close friend was a Gunny in the Nam. Small RECON outfit, lost most of his squad (including a Corpsman and best friend) on his last creep. He spent most of his adult life wandering around on an old beat up motorcycle. Finally spent 7 years in the rainforest in Mexico trying to come to grips with life in the real world. War or whatever the govt chooses to call it at the time is never a good thing for those who participate. Everyone comes home wounded one way or another. And as I have learned over the years there is never a legit explaination for it. No one ever really tells you why it happened for sure just what they think you want to hear. Uh I guess I've said way too much. Not supposed to be politicle on the board.
Every country has its heros and its s***bags. I have served with Canadian soldiers and sailors both and they were really fine troops. Some of the scariest ones I worked with was Phillipine Spec OPs troops in 2004. They are fighting against AbuSayaf guerrillas still today but you don't read about it. I remember watching them parachute out of old CH46's from 1800 feet. I think we should honor any veteran who served honorably regardless of country lines. Soldiers don't make policy, they end being the instrument of policy. Larry Teel Builder Chief Petty Officer, USNR OIF 04-06
Yeah thanks Doc. There were other countries there. You guys are helping me learn a lot. I find as I get older ( I'm only 32) I care more about our past. It's never to late to learn.
definative do***entary...The World at War...sumat like 40, 1 hour shows. Each dealing with a different subject and not done in a biased or sensationalist way. Narrated by Sir Lawence Olivier and done some time in the early 70s, it as interviews from survivors form all sides and campagns. This includes German and Japanese high ranking staff as well as Allied high ranking officers......compelling viewing, if it comes on a station you can get watch it..
As much as the US sacrificed so to did the rest of the world. For example, Australia has sent a larger percentage of its population off to war than any other country on the planet. Hey Doc, I thaught the above was our claim to fame..... don't tell me you fella's Pavlova'd it ?? The PNG stuff is real interesting I have only recently heard anything much about it last 5 or so years, there was some wild stuff went down, you hear about the blokes left on the islands as watchers I'm guessing that was a pretty **** job. My Grandfather was at Gallipoli too, injured and eventually came home with a largley knackered arm ,pretty rough when you are a farmer, mum had uncles in the trenches in Europe in WW1 as well thank god we seem to have moved on a little from there, war is hell but that was just mad...... Blackadder 4 sums it up pretty well.
My next door neighbor was in the Air Corp during WWII. He could not stand to hear anyone bad mouth the Russian people. His entire troop train was buried by a winter avalanche somewhere in Russia. A second train of rescuers was stopped by heavy snow. Russians from a village a mile away trudged thru waist deep snow and dug around the clock for 2 days to slide baskets of black Russian bread down ropes to feed the troops. This from People who could barely feed themselves and who would not accept anything in return. If not for them, he and 125 other guys would have starved to death. You could slam the Russian government, but not the Russian people.
people are people pretty much everywhere. it's the leaders that start these ****ing wars that really ****. WW2 made shared sacrifice a theme in the US home front. It would be so nice to get the USA working together for a common goal that is something other than war. Global Warming is one area that requires a wartime Manhatten Project effort to solve BEFORE ITS TOO LATE. I like what Gen Smedley Butler said; "War is a racket". Most post WW2 American Wars seem kind of, well, stupid, but WW2 seems like something that really had to be done for the good of free people everywhere. -85%
It's sad that there are still fellow countrymen that denigrate other countries based on lies, half-truths, innuendo and falsehoods. It's also sad that there are folk who would draw a parallel between WWII and Iraq. WWII involved countries fighting for land and resources. Clearly identified and proud countries fighting for what they were told by their governments (proof positive that control of the media is control of the public). Iraq involves none of the above. Iraq appears in all it's glory to be ONE country invading another, with no discernible plan. Iraq, as a country, has devolved into chaos, bordering civil war. Iraq never did have a strong national iden***y, with the various factions (all religious in nature) held (loosely) together by a strong dictatorship. And you would expect that, as after WWI the area was granted to the UK as a mandate, being formed out of three former Ottoman vilayets (regions): Mosul, Baghdad, and Basra. (ref. Wikipedia). As to terror attacks on US soil, there have been none by Iraq. There was a terror attack by an American (Oklahoma), one by an Islamic cleric (WTC, Feb. 1993), and one by an Islamic organisation (Sep. 2001). There have been numerous attacks on US properties abroad, as well as numerous attacks on many Western country's properties abroad. Completely stopping terrorism may be impossible: it is very hard to fight fanatics willing to die (but not willing to practice). Terrorism will not be stopped by invading country after country, as terrorism, in general, is not a state policy. I will admit that there are states that finance terrorism, and also who sponsor terrorism. Targeted bombings such as was done in Libya may be the answer. In the end, terrorism may only be slowed by returning the favor. One Islamic terror attack - one mosque destroyed. After the next - five mosques destroyed. After three attacks - ten mosques leveled. This would have to be done with full cooperation from the UN and most (all) of the Western world. It would have to be done with full notification of time and date for destruction, to allow for limiting civilian casualties (noting that the groups involved would purposefully load the mosques with civilians at first), and this would need to be instigated by a leader with balls of ***anium. BTW, look at a map of Iraq. Now look at Kuwait. Notice a minor (HA!!) size differential. That is the only country ever conquered by Iraq. That may be the true indicator of Iraq's military potential. Cosmo
Don't think I hate Japan because of the Tibbets handshake.I respect the people there.I respect all people ,I do have a problem withh some goverments.but never the people.
WWII was a "good war".....My military time was during the Vietnam "police action".....and at that time we (GI's) were hated by Americans and Vietnamese both. At least the guys serving in the desert get some respect....they need it. Conventional warfare will never work again....you can't kill a religion.
The reason people have parralleled Iraq and WWII is because of the Baath party, the Baath party started as loyalist to the Nazi regime and Saddams own uncle who raised him as an orphan was a Nazi sympathizer and fought along side Nazi troops in Nazi germany the baath party started in Syria and had many Iraqi loyals who volunteered themselves and middle eastern oil for the Nazi war machine.Saddam was raised by his uncle under Nazi beliefs and that evolved into his terrorizing dictatorship look at what he did testing bio-chemical weapons on a Kurdish town in northwestern Iraq just to see the efects on humans.Iraq was not a exact terror threat to the US but was a terror threat to othr allied countries of ours.What CNN won't tell you about is the barrels of Saron gas that were found in Iraqi ammo bunkers but the will delight in telling you how many troops got injured today or this hour over there.I would rather my mother hear about it from a Marine in dress blues than from Wolf Blitzer or whoever is reporting that night.Just thought I should put that out there the kurds and others couldn't stand up for themselves against a Sunni dictatorship someone needed to step in hence the US involvement and the involvement of our allies. Once Saddam was out of power if we would have stepped out some other goon would have taken the same role that is why we still are there and will be there for awhile.Hope this helped and made sense after all maybe I'll post a reply from Iraq with pictures sometime around June-August.
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