Technical Outside the lines!!!!

Can't comment on the 32 gas tank, but all my steering shafts are collapsible. Not so much for safety, but more because I can't measure worth a ****.

 

I hesitated to even join this discussion because it’s one of those topics that seems to invite ‘At***ude’. This is likely due in part to the glorified devil may care image that ‘Traditional’ hot rodders are supposed to have. While I’m not afraid of dying, I have no desire to be hurt, paralyzed, burned or maimed. Worse yet, I don’t want to have any of my family or friends subjected to those things in a car I built.

That being said, there are things that can be, and have been done, to maximize safety in hot rods. If you want the ultimate in safety for a given style of car, go to the sanctioning body rule books for cars that resemble what you are building. In my mind, the T roadster would be the hardest to deal with. Look at the progression of Altereds, Track Roadsters and similar cars through the decades. From simple hoop roll bars with NO bracing to the Pure Hell and Wild Willy era and the co**** gages currently in use. Which one do you think is the safest? The prevailing at***ude in the heyday of track roadsters was, “I’d rather be thrown clear of the wreck than trapped inside.

But the latest cage structures will only be safer if you have a helmet, harness and Hans device. If you move around inside the structure you’ll likely beat your brains out on the tubing. And you better have those belts pulled up tight and be in the ‘proper’ driving position or you might break your neck. (Thank you for that lesson Dale Earnheart (RIP))

So my take on this is: We should all strive to build what we have to be as safe as we can. I would like to see this thread continue with technical tips and solutions that we can employ in our builds. A T bucket isn’t going to be as safe as a Volvo, but no need to ignore physics and expedite our entrance to eternity.

 

****, my daily Subaru attracts deer, hail and other cars like a light collects moths! Far less safe than anything old I drove

 

95% of the time I drive my late model with all the modern safety built in. The other 5% (or less) I drive an old car with some small safety upgrades. I compare that to riding a motor cycle, quad, boat, hang glider or any other “risky” hobby, it’s just a risk I’m willing to take to live life.

 

structure can be too stiff.....you need some crumple zone.....killed a bunch of guys in northeastern modified racing back in the heyday.....mostly wall impacts with the car too stout /strong/braced/ to absorb the energy of the contact, which ended up being transferred to the first thing able to give, which was the driver. Multi-time NASCAR champ Richie Evans comes to mind if memory serves.

 

The 'telescoping' steering shaft, and or U-joints, takes some column concerns out. The Deuce tank, out back is a tough one to solve. Better if it was a coolant reservoir.

 

Take whatever precautions that make you feel good, but you can still crack an egg without touching it.

 

From the "Vintage stock cars for the street" thread:

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/vintage-stock-cars-for-the-street.298658/

 

OK, Lets look at my coupe. Notice between the fenders is a white painted bar. The bar is 6" outside the cars rockers, and the rockers are 6" outside of the frame rails.
The original design has ears welded onto the frame extending outward towards the rockers. Attached to those frame extensions with a rubber mount and a 3/8" bolt p***ing through are body cross members, the Plymouth had 3 14 gauge body cross members shaped like a channel that were spot welded to the flat floor pan, and those cross members went out to the rockers. The rockers were a triangle form created with 3 pieces of flat sheet metal spot welded together. The rockers and the floor pan attached to them tend to rust out badly. The entire upper body is built on top of the rockers and welded to them at the door posts. In the past, I have replace the original rockers with 1/8" wall 2" square tube, it sure makes the rest of the body more solid. This car is built slightly different, but the rockers are 18 gauge sheet metal and do form a box.

Back in the racing days, the white painted bar would have been 1/8" wall 1 1/2" tubing welded, or bolted to the frame rail. On this car, they are electrical conduit bolted to the fenders. Yep, fake! But there are several reasons why they are fake.
The bars would have been rub bars to prevent a car getting between the tires, and causing a crash. On the street, I'm not expecting to see much side rubbing.
My car sits high, much higher the most modern hot rods. The height of the rub bars is the same height as the center of the tire/wheel combo, which would have been standard procedure back in the day, you wanted to keep the other guys tires out from between your tires. That height, by the way happens to be around 15-16" off the ground. You will also notice the rub bars are actually below my car bumpers. In a side impact with my car against my car, the only part of my car that would even touch those bars are the bars under my bumpers, and most modern vehicles don't have those bars. Bumper impact would be with the door, above the rub bars, and above any reinforced rocker. just the outer door skin, the window life mechanism, the inner door sheet metal, and my inner door particle board and carpet cover. There is probably 6" between the inner panel and my side, impact would likely be at hip height. I wouldn't expect a good outcome.
The door on my coupe is 42" or 43" long, front edge to rear edge. The front has 2 hinges, and the rear has a modern bear claw latch. In a side impact, if the latch and hinges held, there would still be a lot of crush and inward bend in the doors. Even if I added extra bracing to the door itself to reduce the door bend, how much extra protection would that add before the door hing post and the latch post fold in?

A pickup cab might sit a little higher. replacing the rocker with a 2" x 1/8" wall tube would help a lot with cab structure. Then adding brackets to the frame and mounting actual running boards would also give you additional protection. I think probably keeping the cab mounted with rubber bushings and no larger diameter then 1/2" bolts would add a little more safety, as long as the cab occupants are secured an a good seat with good seat belts, it may be better for the cab to separate from the frame on a hard side crash. That could greatly reduce the impact the peoples bodies receive if the cab could move away from the crash point.

Yes, I've given this a lot of thought. When I first opened my welding shop, I was next door to a towing company impound lot where they took all the wrecked cars. Add to that years of building dirt track cars, and a guy can learn a lot about impact and occupant safety. The biggest thing I learned? When its your time to die, its your time to die, and if it isn't your time, it won't happen. The severity of injuries a person receives in a crash is a completely different situation. Gene

 

More metal = more weight, needs more HP, more HP = more weight, where do you stop . I spent a lot of money ( relative to what I was making at the time) chasing the equation then switched to bikes, can’t beat that, not without more money.

 

Seems the OP is just looking for an arguement to start! Don't bite!!
Like stated above.........when that SUV with the airhead texter driving smashes into you at 45 mph you're gonna be dead or damaged so you wish you were!
The brain sloshing around in its fluid can't take that. I don't care what kind of reinforcement or crumple zones you got!
6sally6

 

My Dad and I went to the modified race at Martinsville that weekend. I think a few more got killed in a year or two after that .

 

Not my intentions to start an argument but to ask others . ******** from people like you that cannot adhere to the old saying “ if you have nothing good to say , say nothing at all helps no one . Move on .

 

Agreed.

 

Anymore hambers with that have pictures, ideas etc. ?

 

100% see your point. But would be incredibly hard to incorporate into most rides and make it effective and not hideous.I suppose on some Model A/32 types one could add a cage type structure in the cowl, functional for steering mount, and crash protection. But to get anything beyond there with any lateral support to make it worthwhile its going to take up the interior of the car too.
I grew up in a Model A sedan. We were building it as I learned to walk, I rode a million miles in the back seat of it. Ive known all my life it didnt have the safety of a modern car.
Its a factor youve gotta live with .

My unibody is upgraded to more safe than before. Id like to move the fuel tank from the cab, but the second option is behind the rear axle, and well we know how that worked for the pinto. and my T bucket, I have no delusions of safety in it. The body is reinforced as best I can without being obtrusive. I added seatbelts, but do I really want to be strapped to the frame when the body is coming apart around me?

 

On my ‘48 F1 I am going to put a new fuel tank in the cab just like factory.

 

I had a 48 Chevy pickup. Thank goodness that year had the tank under the bed.

 

I have been rear ended 3 times, broadsided once, fortunately she hit my front fender rather than drivers door. I too worry about putting the gas tank in the rear.