Technical Overhead gantry - Thoughts on using wood

Looking good! Feels good when you design and build something....and it works! Doesn’t it?



Not trying to be a know it all, but with your limited height, you could gain about four inches, it looks like, by hooking the hoist over the spacers, instead of using the handy down thing. Use big washers to keep it centered. Maybe?


Bones

 

Looking good......your gonna luv it!

On your welding, they sell a little item that is round with a slot in it and slips over your welding wire between your spool and the roller guides. It is some kind of material that holds a special lube oil. That helps your wire to move thru the liner more easily. I would also check the roller guides to make sure they aren't slipping and are the right size. Might need to tighten them a little. I would put a new tip in your gun. Last, I would put a new liner in the gun. All those things can cause the weld to stop and start. Then you blame yourself.
The one thing I noticed that people tend to do wrong and changes their weld appearance is that they start a good weld with the gun close and at a good angle but as they move along they slightly change the angle which moves the tip a little farther from the part. They don't really realize they are doing it. Think of it like a painter keeping his spray gun parallel to a surface through the whole paint stroke. I did it for a long time before I realized what I was doing.
Good luck with your crane

 

Thanks for the compliments. The real test will be when I lift my flathead block up onto my engine stand.
I'll check into your idea about placing the hoist hook on the through rod. I think the problem is that there is only about 1/4" clearance between the rod washers/spacers and the bottom of the beam.

 

Thanks for all your advice. The wire feeds fine on its own. I have a feeling the arc is being interrupted. I'll clean and check the mechanism. I'll also replace what I can on the tip. A while back I replaced the originsl cheap ground clamp with a much larger/stronger version. The issue is that it was made for a much larger gage ground wire, so I'm wondering if that could be the problem.
The biggest issue when I weld is that for the most part I cannot see what I'm doing. Also, as you mentioned, when my position isn't ideal, things tend to go south. I'll need to invest in a proper helmet, and perhaps get a light for tip of my gun. It is also an issue of practice, as I really don't do much welding.

 

In your post #120, you said your wire was really old. Take a close look at the reel and see if the wire is rusting. I believe I read somewhere that your shop is unheated and I know the humidity in your area is usually pretty high. I have the same problem at times because I don't use the MIG much. I've thrown away a lot of wire that has become rust contaminated. If I were doing a lot of production fabrication work, I'd use MIG but I prefer to stick weld, especially if it's out of position. I use E6010 for root passes, especially on rusty iron, because it burns right through all the crud, and E7018 for fill and finish.

 

I think you are probably correct. It sits inside, but in my basement which can get very humid. I'll purchase a new spool for sure. I have thought about getting a stick machine, especially for making repairs on my father-in-laws farm equipment. That stuff is usually pretty rusty, and usually requires a heavier bead that what my small MIG can do.

 

If you buy a stick machine be sure to buy “ DC” capable welder. DC welding much easier and I guess “ nicer” lol. They cost a little more, but are worth it.







Bones

 

Every now and then we weld the wire to the tip. Usually they still work fine, but sometimes they close a little and the wire rollers are fighting the extra friction. Also, if your gun lead is coiled or has a bend in it while welding it can prevent smooth wire flow. One of the biggest causes is simply a worn liner. You have to cut them to length but they are pretty inexpensive. Have to buy them for the size wire you are using. A .035 will work for .031 wire but if using .023 wire you need to have an .023 liner and tip. It bends and makes nests if you don't use the .023 specific stuff.
Welding Helmets: Harbor Freight makes a pretty decent one for the money but last one I bought doesn't have a replaceable battery. Have to buy another one when the battery expires. Get one thats automatic and has a replaceable battery. They usually have an adjustable "darkness" knob. A 9 is a good low darkness setting. If you can't see clearly it will definitely affect what you do. Get one of the LED lights that you can plug in the wall and shine it on your weld area. Here is something worth reading. Its about o/a welding, but it points out some important information. The point I'm trying to make is that we (me) often see "something" when welding but don't really realize we need to see better. Often we need to wear "reading glasses" even if we don't normally need them. They make lenses that snap into helmets too. The readers work best for me because they are cheap ($2-$5) and you can find what strength works best.
http://www.airbum.com/articles/ArticleZenWelding.html Having a really clear view is important.
Personally I would never stick weld anything that I can mig weld. I have a Tig machine that will allow me to stick weld if necessary. One project I'm doing has a Z'ed frame. I'll have to weld inside the boxed frame about 5 inches down. I have to use a stick welder to reach inside. On the outside it will be Mig welded. I learned how to weld with a stick welder.

 

I agree with @Bones, that's why I suggested 6010 and 7018. E6011 and E7014 are similar rods for an AC machine but there is so much splatter with them because of the AC and the slag is difficult to clean up. They were always referred to as "farmer's rod" when I started welding. In regard to @ekimneirbo's comment that he would never stick weld anything that he could MIG. I can weld stick anywhere while MIG is pretty much restricted to an protected environment. Unless you've got a dead calm day outside, you're asking for porosity in your weld if the wind blows.

 

I think most builders will at some time or another be faced with replacing sheetmetal on one or more project cars. Some of the replacement may be major while others require only minor sheetmetal panels.A Mig welder will provide a more acceptable solution for replacing those panels than a stick welder. Additionally the Mig will usually provide very nice welds on thicker materials. Its more controllable for tacking due to the smaller wire size and it leaves no slag to deal with. For my purposes I find a Mig to be the better choice. On really thin or precise jobs I use a Tig. As I mentioned above, I will need to rely on using stick to get into a less accessable spot. Still I see no reason to use stick in any situation that a Mig will work. No slag,better temperature control.

 

Welding is all about what you are good with and familiar with......and what you have! I learned on stick and use the “ farmers” rod that Alan mentioned. I will only use Lincoln Fleet weld 37 rod number 6013, usually 1/8 size. I can do most jobs with this rod and run a beautiful bead that I can chip with my finger. Looks good, holds good, will it pass X-ray??? Probably not. If I am forced to weld up hill I use 7018.
That’s what I’m comfortable with. I had a Miller 250 mig brand new, but never really got the hang of it completely. Even had some “ pros” try my machine and they had trouble with it. I don’t have it , as I’m retired now.
I like to gas weld thin stuff, because that’s what I have. Give me a torch and some baling wire ..... I’m a happy camper.!






Bones

 

In any weld one of the main issues to be dealt with is heat control. You have to have equipment that will allow you to put only the needed amount of heat into the object of your efforts. With a stick welder you are at a disadvantage on sheetmetal because the welding rod requires more heat than with a Mig or Tig. The welding rod is bigger than the available welding wire. Smaller diameter means far less heat needed to effect a melting point. The wire is closer to the thickness of the sheetmetal making things work more easily. When O/A welding is used, there is still a need to downsize the wire used and the torch itself. In aircraft welding they even make special welding torches with smaller tips for welding the moly tubes together. Heat control and containment are paramount when welding thin materials. My O?A torch is set up with two sets of guages, two torches, and two hoses. I set one set of guages for welding with a small torch. The other set of guages goes to a larger hose and torch used for cutting and
heating. Makes it a lot handier.

 

Got my engine onto the engine stand tonight. Finally. Worked like a champ, and I didn't even break into a sweat.

 

Congrats,.........Was all that effort worth it ?

 

Haha. Yes. Chain hoist in one hand and beer in the other. Priceless.

 

Here is a word to the wise. When you have a structural member would it support the load if there were no fasteners in the assembly(bolts, lags). Wow I would not trust that setup with angle bolted on the side of a beam. The only structural support is the bolts! Of course I have never done anything unsafe.

 

You do realize that those Grade 5 - 1/2" bolts go right through to the other side with no doubt big ass washers thru the glued and screwed beams...And of course the fact that the Builder Knows full well of the limitations in load capacity...explained below...

 

No worries. The shear strength of a Grade 5 1/2" bolt is 14,000 lbs!. I have a total of qty 6 supporting each of the angles. The weak link is the wood, but the beams can still support 3,600 lbs each. My chain hoist is rated for 1,000 lbs, but the most I'll ever lift is probably around 700 lbs. So, when you think about it, the minimum factor of safety is about 10:1. Works for me.

 

There's is a huge difference between what would can support when the load is pressing down on the beam vs. The load being on bolts near the bottom of the beam ....

 

Could you please explain why? Looking at any trolley used on an I beam, the load is applied along the lowest part of the beam. If this was a worst case scenario, why is this then used all over the place?

 

What you have designed and made will have no problem supporting , all that the hoist is capable of lifting safely . I’m all about safety . I have laid under many huge pipes supported by a 3/8 sling chain raised by a back hoe bucket . This was safety at its best . Also a note that forged hook was welded to the bucket by me . No X-ray or destruction test , after you weld for a while you know if your weld is GOOD or not . When you get in the hole with a 36 in tie piece supported by sling chains and don’t care , are you really worried about if it’s safe or not ? I look back at so many times welding and the gas burning around the weld as you go and wonder , why did I ever do that ? This is why I say you did a fine outstanding job , and your trolley beam I would be proud to work under it myself . Your back will thank you many times over in the years to come .

 

Another thread packed with information that is useful even if not building a trolley. Welding and engineering discussed and explained in terms a novice can get his head around. Highly educational.

 

...looks like the middle of the road to me both in the angle And beam...

@Ziggster good job...have you run a load moving around the trolley area?
​

 

Yes, bolts are located roughly in the middle. When deciding to drill out where the holes should go, I actually did wonder about what effect having holes located lower down would have as @spillaneswillys pointed out. Even though I'm a mechanical engineer, I graduated 30 years ago, and all the theory has long faded. After a quick review, all the text book examples of beam loading use loads located at the top of the beam. I think intuitively, we all think it would be weaker to locate the load lower down, but to prove this mathematically is a different story. It's not super complicated, but I didn't come across any examples. Perhaps the structural engineer could chime in.
Yes, I did move the engine back and forth, but across the transverse beam only and it ran silky smooth. Only issue which I need to address is that there is a triangular piece missing about 3" long at the end of one of angle beams, and one of the trolley wheels had dropped through. D'oh. Luckily, I had already mounted the engine on the stand at that point, so I need to add some stops on all the trolley rails.
In reality, I'm actually more worried about the point loads from my engine stand on my wooden floor. I'm not sure if it is 1/2" or 5/8"' thick, but the plywood floor is not happy when I move that engine around, so I'm thinking of doubling up the floor with an extra sheet or two to cover the area where the stand will rest. The plywood is even bowed under my table saw for that matter.

 

Most of the pictures posted here in this thread scare me. Most look way too spindly for me to have confidence in them.
That being said, I just now took a picture of what I have been using to lift, carry, and load heavy engine/trans assemblies in the garage I built in 1979 and still use today.
I even unloaded my milling machine and moved it across the shop with this. 2,000 lbs?? 1,200 lbs??? I have no idea.
Three 2x10s with 1/2 plywood sandwiched. Each end of the 26 ft span has 4 or 5 2x4s propped under the beam and built in next to the wall studs so you don't see them under the wall covering.
The hefty angle iron you see holding up the I-beam is only part of the support.
On the other side of the beam, I have a hefty 4x4 angle iron about 7 or 8 ft long, that this I-beam support bolts to, sandwiching the hefty beam.
I have ladders hanging on the other side or I would have taken pics of the longer angle iron on the other side of the beam.
The key to incorporating wood into any stressed structure is to spread the load out quite far.
This has worked very well for me, and has never given any indication of "straining" under any load I have given it so far.
Overkill is the best safety feature you can build in.
Ok, please don't lecture me on the exposed wiring
And-- the plastic pipe is for the positive air mask in the grinding room, NOT for air pressure






WHY BE ORDINARY ?

 

Two simple words , WOOD SPLITS !

 

It’s too late in this game, but if Ziggster had of added a 12 inch strip of metal, in as heavy a gauge as possible in between the 2x12s it would have increased the load carrying capacity tremendously. Even thin metal on edge and kept from bowing is super strong! Might be hard to find to find a strip that long, you could have 5x10 14 gauge sheets sheared and welded together, that would do it. I think it’s strong enough as it is, for his purposes! Alway someone, like Me, telling a guy what he “ shuda” done! Lol








Bones

 

While I prefer steel and think its less labor intensive to build with, a properly built wooden crane support structure is plenty stong. Wood tends to give somewhat before failing and makes plenty of noise. Properly built though, wood can "hold its own" if thats what a potential builder has to work with.I applaud Ziggsters efforts and his results. Now, his efforts will be rewarded for the rest of his life...........and his buddies will be wishing they had one in their shop.

 

Do you remember the old wooden train bridges?

Or the old wooden covered bridges? Actually this one is my neighbourhood and was rebuilt in the 90s.

Today I was visiting an equestrian center where my daughters recently started taking lessons, and they still had one of old original barns. It was probably close to a 100 years old, and still standing. Probably 60 ft high. Large hand hewn wooden beams. I saw one horiztonal beam that had separated at the complex hand carved joint. To fix the issue, they just added a twin structure beside the damaged one. Did the barn collapse - no.
I understand and respect the opinions of others. There is always more than one way to skin a cat. I did what I did for reasons I already mentioned. It works for me. I'm confident in my work and my decisions. Perhaps my risk appetite may be higher than others that have commented. That's fine, and that's what makes us all unique.

 

I tried moving the engine back and forth as @Stogy suggested. It runs smooth and is a one hand operation to push back and forth as it should be. For fun, I moved the engine to the middle of the transverse beam as well as in the middle of the two longitudinal beams. Worst case for deflection. Here are the results:

Transverse beam deflection: just slightly less than 1/8"
Longitudinal beam deflection: 1/16"

Not sure what a flathead short block weights in at, but I'm guessing around 400 lbs.

Not sure what exactly all this means, but I thought I would share, but please note that all things structural are designed to deflect under load.