Technical Paint chassis

Hi,
New here. I am planning to brush paint my ch***is on my truck, only surface rust, so body will be on. Nothing bad i just need to coat and protect before it gets too bad, it was my Dad's. Plan to use Rust-Oleum, oil based enamel. Prior to than i was going to use Loc***e rust neutralizer, because its suppose to act as a primer. I read that Rust-Oleum oil based paint dries slow, and is more durable if hardener is added this will help speed up drying time and durability, and a thinner will speed it up as well and help paint flow on better. So i read that either Valspar or another product called majic hardener would work with Rust-Oleum, and acetone for the thinner.


So what ratios, per gallon or quart of hardener and thinner? I don't want it too thin, because application is going to be with a brush. Oh - yeah what type of brush do you all recommend, maybe foam? Any special way or instructions i need to mix? I think i read somewhere that a hardener and thinner needs to set for 15 minute before use?? So i was going to use Rust-Oleum rust reformer, but i contacted Rust-Oleum and they said it wasn't a primer and the surfaces needed to be heavily rusted, and it wasn't then the product would not work well. So i wanted to get something readily available where live, and i was thinking loc***e rust neutralizer, because acts as a primer as well. Just curious is this product any good for surface scale rust?
One concern with using a primer/rust neutralizer, is that i read that Rust-Oleum paints do not play well with other primers?? Because of fish oil that's used in the paint. Any suggestions?

 

Use rustolium rusty metal primer then.
You can add penetrol that will help remove brush strokes.
Here’s the data sheet
https://www.rustoleum.com/-/media/D...fessional_DTM_Alkyd_Enamel_450_VOC_TDS_1.ashx

 

We washed, then wire brushed a frame.
Cleaned and used rusty metal primer. Let it sit for 24 hours. Painted with oil based enamel

looks ok for a cheap set up

 

Valspar says 8oz to 1 gallon

 

Thanks for the reply.
Does anyone have any experience with the Loc***e rust neutralizer? Thought about priming it will Rust-Oleum first but, if the loc***e works as a primer then it maybe less work for the spray on loc***e vs the paint on Rust-Oleum, and too i will be able to paint the same day with the Loc***e. I am definitely going to use the Rust oleum enamel with hardener. So 8 oz per gallon of hardener ,or 2 oz per quart. How much thinner? Do i mix both at the same time?

 

Thinning is for spraying.
If I spray it, I add till I like the way it sprays.
It depends on what size needle set up you have in your gun

 

Spray the paint on brushing by yourself will take too long. The paint will start to harden before you are completely done. That rust converter needs to be completely dry before you try to put any paint on it. Scuffing after it is dry is also recommend. Then rusty metal primer, scuff again and paint. It works well that way and holds up great. You have to put in the work if you want decent results. No spray can miracles.

 

You can get Rust-oleum rust reformer in spray bombs or even self etching primer spray bombs or cans . Yes I actually used loc***e rust converter , shook the **** out of it and it sprayed on and didn’t convert at all . Mostly clear and some splotches areas of tinged gold color. I bought mine from Lowe’s which they gave me my money back. Buying at Lowe’s was maybe my fatal mistake related to product turnover. I got rust-oleum and worked tip top . Even if it was do to lack of turnover ( better to go to a paint supply store) I wanted to test it , I wouldn’t buy again . I will just stick with blue ,red or green loc-***e retaining products though.

 

I have done it with por15 using wide foam brushes, turned out real nice, mastercoat was another brand I've used with equal results.

 

I don't have a sprayer. Going to do it by brushing. Is it thin enough to use without thinning?

 

I used rustoleum rusty metal primer and rustoleum satin black on our '41. brushed it on in '95 and still good when we sold it in 2017 after almost 175K miles.

 

In my opinion, yes

 

I agree with Anthony about using Rustoleum red primer and as he suggested you can use Penetrol as a medium to smooth out the brushed finish.

If you need the paint to dry faster there is a product called Japan dryer and it will accelerate the drying time,during the summer you won't need a lot.

I brushed Restoleum red primer & semi-gloss black on the Ranch Wagon frame. HRP

 

Did very similar recently. ***embled vehicle difficult to access.

Wire wheel frame, phosphoric acid in a spray bottle set 24 hours, degreaser to neutralize and rinse, rubbing alcohol to rinse ( acid, degreaser, alcohol) spray bottle. I brushed on epoxy primer, you can use rustoleum rusty metal primer.

If youre painting overhead, may not want to reduce a lot

 

Mine is a 97' 2500 Chevy. I am going to do this with the body on, the body has no rust. Its not bad it does have light surface rust and just needs coating. I understand that one cant get 100% of frame with the body on but again its not bad, just needs to be treated a bit. Its not a truck that's ever exposed to tough conditions. It was my dad's, he bought it new for plans to use it as a work truck (he was a mason) buy he never did, it was his 'good truck' drive arounder.

 

I have parts on my bus that were cleaned, wire brushed then rusty metal primer applied. Waited 24 hours then painted.
5 years and still holding up.

 

Yes at first i thought about getting the Rust-Oleum rust reformer. I contacted Rust-Oleum and they said it wasn't a primer, i did know that.. So basically it isnt a primer?? So i couldn't get buy with spraying this rust reformer, then painting on a coat of Rust-Oleum enamel?
They said if its not severely rusted then it wouldn't be effective for laying a coat of paint. Lots of companies can be vague about their products. They said if you spray it on say for example part of the frame that does have enough rust then it will no work, meaning it would no turn the area black to be able to take paint?? I don't know if this is true or not.

 

So will the hardener be sufficient enough to allow it to dry quick enough so i can paint another coat the same day? Just by reading online, some say its too thick out of the can to be flow able enough to do with a brush?? IDK - though thats what and why i am here to get feedback from experienced folks.

 

I am pretty sure that you are going to have to do this in sections. If you attempt to mix too much at once, you will see it harden before you can get it all on.

I would get a sleeve of paint cups, and mix up 8oz of paint and hardener at-a-time.

Paint that all on, and then mix 8oz more, quickly, so where you start again it is still wet. You want to keep that wet-edge, to tie in the next section.

When you use a catalyst, the paint is not "drying" it is going through chemically-induced hardening.

As for a second-coat, that will be up to manufacturer instructions, which often do not include specifics for when you use hardener. You might be moving too slowly with a brush to do a second coat without waiting for full cure, and scuffing it first. At that point, revert to the manufacture instructions about how to re-coat after the paint is dry.

 

Good point! I really never thought about that.
How long does it take to harden in mixed container, with paint and hardener, meaning what is the working time i have on my mixed paint? I was going to mix up maybe half a quart at a time.

 

This will take longer that you will expect it to. This sort of thing always does.

I cannot say for sure how long it will take for it it to harden in the cup. That's why I recomended stating with 8ox of paint, and whatever hardener is appropriate for that. You will know by the end of the first cup if it hardens too fast, or if you can min up more than 8ox. Worst case, you lose just the end of one 8oz batch, and might have to scuff the edge where you cut in the next section.

A lot of this depends on temperature and humidity too, so be aware. If the temperature is rising quickly, don't mix more than the 8oz. If the temperature is falling, plan on stopping before the temperature meets the manufacture application threshold.

And above all else, make sure that you have left enough time for full cure before the dew-point will be reached. Condensing moisture on fresh paint won't make you happy.

 

Yeah , the can says primer and paint over it. I sprayed it on the roof and came out nice. My roof was down to metal and I prepped my suspension parts and actually tested it first . Anywhoo, I am going to scuff it and lay down two coats of primer before paint . That’s the grand plan . It’s a ‘48 F1 so fenders are going Charcoal gray metallic and possibly hot rod red with a similar paint in the cab. Ch***is and suspension going charcoal and black .

 

Brush painting an ***embled frame under a car/truck is a very slow process, expect it to take 6-8 hours, and expect to be wearing a lot of paint. I would suggest you skip the hardener if your going to brush on the Rustoleum. I use a paint cup and pour about 6 oz of paint into the cup at a time, and seal up the can each time you've pour some out of it, especially if its hot (above 70 degrees) while your painting. Clean up the cup, and the brush a bit, and stir the paint before you add more Restoleum to the cup. The Rustoleum becomes tacky after being exposed to the air and heat after 20 minutes to a 1/2 hour.

I would also suggest a really good cleaning of the frame before you start, and make sure the frame is dry (and high enough in the air for you to get under it) before you start to brush on the Rustoleum. Clean it one day, paint it the next, let it sit inside to dry a bit overnight. Because it dries slow (if its not hot while painting) it does a pretty good job of flattening out.

I would also suggest if you are painting the frame on an ***embled vehicle, that you buy a "few" brushes. There are places you will not get a 2" wide brush into, and there are places you will wish you had a 3" wide brush. Don't buy the cheapest brush you can find, buy a higher quality brush (my last experience with a foam brush and Rustoleum was a disintegrating foam brush after about an hour). Also, I think I've ever been able to really clean a brush after using it with Rustoleum, I just plan on a new set of brushes with each painting experience.

I think your going to find the recoat time on Rustoleum is after 48 hours, and it may not be completely dry even then. If its not fully dry, it will lift the base coat. Personally, I would wait a week between coats, but don't try to sand it before you give it the 2nd coat, or it will be a mess. It takes almost a month for Rustoleum to dry enough to sand with even 400 wet or dry, wet.
I've only painted about a dozen cars with Rustoleum, the last one 6 months ago. Your experience may be different then mine. Gene

 

So do you think rust reformer is good enough alone, (without a primer) and apply Rust-Oleum enamel on top of it? Would it be durable that way?

 

Like the gene-koning said its going to take a while. If i need to brush a primer, it will take days to fully cure and it will be a project that will seem to never end, before i paint with Rust-Oleum enamel. I just wish that Rust-Oleum rusty metal primer had a black! Its rust colored and when spraying on it will most certainly get the rust colored paint more into the nooks and crannies more, then when i switch to black (brushing it on) then i may not coat all areas with the black and completely cover the rusty metal primer. I am in no hurry, i will do it this summer and i don't want to jump the gun before i kinda know what i am doing, based on what you fellows tell me. So far i may still use a hardener, for the most durability and for the short dry time. I wander if maybe if one added a less 'hot' thinner like mineral spirits it would delay the dry time a little? Looks like it would be hard to mix 8oz at a time i mean as far as ratios of maybe thinner, and hardener.


Hey i wander how effective and durable the Rust-Oleum regular black primer (in raddle cans) would be over surface rust, prior to the Rust-Oleum oil based enamel with hardener added??

 

Adding any thinner will speed up the drying time, but it also reduces the quality of the paint film. It also will create the probability of more runs in the paint due to the paint being thinner.

Adding the hardener will also speed up the drying time. You will probably need to add the hardener to the paint, then just be sure you stir it well before you pour the smaller amount into the cup to brush onto the frame. Beware the paint in the sealed can may start to set up before you get it on the frame. There are reasons I suggested you not add in the hardener when you are brush painting. Another reason I've pretty well quit using the hardener in Rustoleum is the finished product tends to chip easier, down to the metal, with the hardener then it does without it.

Anytime you speed up the drying time, what you are speeding up is the drying time of the outer skin of the paint. Once that outer skin has dried, the brush strokes will remain. One of the advantages of using a product like Rustoleum is the slow drying time, it pretty well flattens out most of the brush strokes as it slowly dries.

You will also notice I've not ever stated using a primer under the Rustoleum. The oil base of the Rustoleum will seal the metal, and will stick well to clean dry metal. If the metal is clean and dry, the primer pretty much just acts like another coat of paint. If you want 2 coats and a black finish, just give it two coats of black. If you read the directions on the Rustoleum Rusty Metal Primer, they tell you you can use the primer as a top coat.

The paint in the Rustoleum spray cans have the same paint product as the quart or gallon cans, except its thinned down so it will spray better. If your going to use a spray can, be sure it is really shook up well, and keep shaking it between spray strokes as you paint. Pay careful attention to the recoat times on the Rustoleum spray cans, recoating too fast, or too slow can and has caused the bottom coat to lift off the steel. 2-3 coats of Rustoleum spry cans is about equivalent to one coat of brushed on Rustoleum straight out of the can, as far as paint protection is concerned, in my experience.

 

Not trying to hijack this thread, but Danny what is your tire & wheel combo on the Ranch Wagon?

 

No naphtha or acetone does not cause rustoleum with hardener in it to dry faster. It does thin it though slightly. No need to go nuts with any thinner unless spraying which would be the best way to do it.

 

I am glad i found this forum! I may just at a little hardener, i dont know yet, i do value your input very much! One guy said 8oz per gallon so if i mix up a 16oz cup of paint, so that would be 1oz per 16oz. So what if i go a half of that say 0.5oz per 16oz? So will 16oz of paint go a long ways?

 

Dang i wish the rusty metal primer came it black. Rust color, spraying i will definitely get into places i cant probably with a brush, so if i use this then i switch to a paint brush with the black enamel then i could have areas that will be rust colored and not black.

Curious if i could use the item in the link straight on surface rust without rust treatment, then brush paint with Rust-Oleum enamel?

Is there some special about the Rusty metal primer vs the other Rust-Oleum spray primers?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Black-Rust-Oleum-Automotive-Sandable-Primer-Spray-12-Oz/16816076