So im trying to plan out as much as possible on my project(model a phaeton/32 ch***/hiboy) and one item im up in the air about are the pedals, I'm leaning towards a floor mount ***embly because i think the clutch linkage maybe more starght foward to operate(mech vs hyd throwout bearing-whole new argument), anyway, what do you think
Not trying to steal your thread here, but I started out with a '29 frame and a 4" channeled '27 T roadster. My original thinking, or Plan A (I didn't really have a plan) was to use a hanging 90 degree offset brake pedal. After making a frame to fit inside the cowl and extending the master cylinder mount so the master would sit directly under the cowl vent, I realized that wasn't going to work, since I couldn't get my fat *** in and out the car. Plan B involved using a dropped F1 crossmember, pedals and mount from the pickup. Since I boxed my frame, I had to figure how to move the pedals. Got that figured by shortening the clutch shaft an inch and a half, moving the brake pedal to the right outside of the mount and moving the clutch pedal where the brake used to be. Everything still works in the same plane as before, so I guess I lucked out. ***embly before installation. Turned the pivot shaft around and had to add two spacers. The pivot ends of the pedals are different widths. Pivot shaft is turned around so I can get a spacer, a nut and a grease zerk on the shaft. Angle looks off on the cross shaft but it's not, camera angle is weird.
I don't like floor mounted pedals because they dig into your back when you are lying on the floor trying to work under the dash and the holes in the floor's ability to seal drafts from under there and the inconvenience of adding brake fluid. I don't like firewall mounts because they look ugly. My solution was to make one of those 90 degree hide the master cylinder behind the dash setups. Topping up brake fluid is still a problem though.
I've done them both. Really like the swing pedals from R-Jay's Speed Shop, had them on my deuce pickup. If I'm doing a Chevy I quit worrying about the clutch linkage. I use a common Chevy bell housing and if I'm doing swing pedals I leave the fork coming out the left side. If I'm doing floor pedals I uses a converted Chevy bell housing and move the clutch fork to the right side. I use a 7/8th bore Wilwood pull slave cylinder on either side. Uses the stock fork, TO bearing, pivot ball and boot, looks factory. For the early Ford trans or T5 I have made a bracket that uses a 1 inch pusher slave on a bracket that bolts to the side of the trans. Uses a push rod to a 35-36 style clutch lever. Pusher uses a 7/8th bore MC and the 7/8th Willwood puller uses a 3/4 bore MC.
Swing pedals are often very convenient. Master cylinders and worse yet a booster and master cylinder on the firewall of an otherwise Zit free engine compartment are a whole lot of ugly blocking the view of that engine you just spent a ton of work and money on. That meaning that if it is a driver that I am most likely not going to open the hood on for show and tell time I'll run the swing pedals, In my 48 or what ever my flathead goes in, hell no, I didn't spend all that money on finned aluminum and having it polished to hide it behind ugly.
I did an under-floor MC and thru-floor pedals because the Hemi and the throttle linkage ate any firewall room for the master. Plus, out of sight, out of mind, and I thought it looked better having the pedal sprout through the floor.
I've done both recently. On my PU, I ran out of room under the truck (46RE transmission) so it got a hanging pedal. If you have to screw up the firewall, cover the booster/MC in chrome and own it! On my roadster I made an aluminum cover and welded in a retainer with holes drilled and tapped for the countersunk hardware. I made it large enough to not only check fluid but to remove the M/C through the floor if need be. I added sound deadening up to the height of the lid so you can't feel or see it through the carpet. I do a service check every spring when I change the oil to make sure the M/C is still full. And when I put it on the lift for a full detail mid summer.
All the other posts bring up a few good points to think about. What trans/engine, what do you want (hyd or linkage) and what do you want it to look like. But all that aside, I think you need to get the frame the way you want, then put the engine/trans inside and then see what room you have. I've switched ideas on engines and trans in my '28 Tudor so many times but I have '39 and F1 pedals to make something work when I start on it again.
Another thing that a firewall mount does is makes for an easy brake light switch. You don't have to rely on those brake line pressure switches or a weather tight mechanical switch. Any under dash one will work fine.
I have had both. I have a 32 and a 34 and a 48 all with floor mounted pedals now. But I am more of a function vs fashion guy and I prefer the hanging pedals. I think getting to your master cylinder easily is more important than having a smooth firewall. I don't think a master cylinder is unattractive anyway. My 32 used to have a firewall mount and I liked it better. It is now in the floor and its a real h***le to add fluid. I had planned to relocate on the firewall again but I got old and lazy and have not got around to it. I like easy access to all the working parts, so I even put my battery on the firewall..... I think its logical...live long and prosper.....
A cable clutch set up from a 98 or so Mustang or a mid 90s Jeep Commanche is easy to set up, adjustable, and removes the need for a clutch master cyl and subsequent filling. A single non power brake master cylinder on a firewall looks more nostalgic and doesn't take much room. If running discs on the front then 2 of them are needed but they look kinda neat (IMHO). Since you are building a very early model Ford, I think you can get acceptable braking without a power booster. On my 32, the firewall bolts to the frame and the body sits down atop it. My current plan is to make a mounting cradle behind the firewall under the cowl and bolt hanging pedals to it .......maybe even the steering column. Then if I ever need to remove the body, everything stays in place. Gotta do the actual measuring but thats whats careening around inside my gray mater cells.......both of them.
One of my favorites. 1970's and 1980's Mercedes 114,115,116 and 107 pedal ***emblies. Firewall mounted plus bracing to attach to the dash panel. Built in slave cylinder for hydraulic clutch. Booster and master on the firewall, reservoir serves both master and slave so easy access. Manual and automatics used the same ***embly you just need to order the the manual (clutch pedal, slave cylinder) etc. parts from Benz. Wreckers used to be full of the cars. https://www.ebay.com/itm/395038763565?hash=item5bfa252a2d:g:-jAAAOSwJr5lbDvP
I don't know the whole story on your project but I used the stock pedals on my AVATAR. The rod you see coming thru the K member is stock. Charlie Stephens
One last time..........I'd take a good look at a cable clutch. Very unobtrusive and pretty easy to set up. Then if you hang a master cylinder on the firewall it has more room for a booster. Look at one from an 80s Corvette. You can put a different master cylinder on it, but its much smaller than most . They had front and rear discs so need to consider that as well.
I like hanging pedals better for access to the MC to add fluid, and it eliminates the problem of maintaining a weather-tight seal around the hole where the pedals come up throught the floor. On cars that originally had pedals coming up through the floor, the firewall will develop stress cracks if you mount hanging pedals without reinforcement. A pedal mount that connects to both firewall and dash solves the problem. I modified a '52-'56 Ford pedal ***embly to work on the '38 Ford pickup. The same pedal ***embly is a bolt-in for '40-'47 Ford trucks, fits like it was custom made for it.
I've only done an under the floor pedal/cylinders installation once but it was the easiest and works flawlessly. Easy access with hinged floor doors under the mats. Battery is under the floor on the p***. side. I do need to get some of those pedal arm seals for the cowl. I bought the pedal ***embly at a swap meet along with the master cylinders as a package but I swapped out the clutch master for a Wildwood unit, matched up for use with a Tilton hydraulic throwout bearing. A smooth operating unit that I don't regret using. The brake pedal arm only has 3/8' clearance from the engine but is rock solid with zero end play. Some early mock-up pics.
Nice. Let us know how it works out! My old man's '29 A has a 90° under dash setup and I plan to do the same. His can be filled through the former gas filler but you have to be very careful.
I'm not a fan of under-floor pedals for multiple reasons. Sealing the various openings is one, poor access to the master cylinder is another. Now, I understand that on most '20s/30s vehicles, firewall space is at a premium and trying to mount a master cylinder much less a power booster is a real issue so that imposes limits on what can be fitted. And I'll admit that a 'clean' firewall generally looks better on these cars. The '40s-up vehicles generally have more room on the firewall but will still cause some access/clearance issues, just not as severe unless you want a booster also. One solution is those under-dash set-ups that turn the master 90 degrees and can include the booster, but that IMO only makes the master access even worse. Plus it can interfere with wipers/heaters/radios/AC on some cars. But my main objection to under-floor pedals is they end up right in the path of the drivers side exhaust header pipe if you're trying for between-the-rails piping. It rules out long-tube headers for sure, and even 'regular' exhaust can be problematic on some cars/frames. I've seen some pretty convoluted installs... I've got the 'usual' chrome aftermarket master/booster on my avatar and while the install was done well, it's too close to the centerline of the car. Makes getting to the plugs on that side harder, and limits my air cleaner choices because of clearance issues. I've been mulling a hybrid set-up; the booster under the dash and out of sight, with just the master visible on the firewall. Plus maybe offsetting the booster to move the master further outboard. I'm a bit surprised no one has come up with this. Linkages would be a bit complicated (I want to include manual clutch linkage) and I haven't looked into what booster would work yet, however. An automatic-trans version could be considerably simpler. If anybody has done/seen this, I'd love some details.
I can't understand why on lightweight cars ( T's , A 's ,32's ) its deemed necessary to run a booster ? My old ' 65 impala with a big block had Manual steering & brakes .
Agreed, little cars like my roadster don't require them and adding one would have looked a bit fugly. My pick up probably didn't one either but I added it for my wife's comfort. She has never driven a car without power brakes.
I swapped from manual drums to power discs on my 62 Bel Air. It's 3,800 lbs and way more enjoyable to drive with power brakes.
I used a set of swing pedals from Ansen. A swap meet find. I used an early 60'S International Harvester half ton master cylinder which has the brake and clutch cylinders it the correct position, unlike the GM unit that has to be reversed to face forward. I got an unknown Ford truck slave cylinder off of Ebay and made a mount bracket to work with my clutch fork. I ran a 1/4" steel line down the firewall and a 39 Ford flexible rear brake hose to the slave cylinder. That was in 2007 and it is still performing perfectly. I also used silicone fluid which doesn't attract moisture and works forever. Easy peasy and rather cheap too. 40k plus miles and no problem.
Might look at an 85-95 Corvette MC and booster . The booster is much more compact than most and there are a lot of those vettes getting parted out. Then there is always the hydroboost setup. I'm using one on an a small OT pickup. Of course that means running a power steering pump. But it sure gives a lot more room next to a valve cover.
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