Phillips Head Screws: Available in 1938

When reading the Sloppy Seconds thread (great car by the way) I caught some banter about Phillips head screws. Since they were available in 1938, they would have been period correct. Drywall screws are another story!

 

what did they look like in 1938?

I know I've seen quite a few on WWII airplanes. I wasn't sure exactly when they came about, but I havent seen much common use of them till later.

 

I think Ford started using them in small numbers about 1941...anyway, my '48 has them. I did a little searching...invented/patented '33-4, then a period of difficulty while manufacturing was worked out. So far, I haven't found when they actually became commonly used in industry.
The 1948 used the things on the window moldings, I think nowhre else; these are perfectly normal oval headed screws not different in any way from modern appearance.
In the '50's, I remember my Father regarded them as slightly new-fangled...he had bought a Phillips driver because he had noticed the window screws in his new car.

 

OK, '36 Caddy may have been first auto use...considered common by 1940.
I'm guessing they would have entered the hardware store slowly...that they would have been moderately difficult to find in 1938.

 

I'm missing where drywall screws come into the equation. especially since drywall wasn't around for another 20 years or more.

 

my 46 ford has the window parts attached with them also...i figured someone changed them over time! hmmm
Ive talked with people about the commonplace use of them in the 40's-50's and "as near as they remember" it wasnt untill into the later 50's that they were a common occurance
but thats not written fact

I think I'll try to stay away from them none-the-less

the Niekamp roadster has ALOT of parts attached with phillips screws which i thought maybe had been a mistake (along with many others) during its restoration....maybe not?

this common information such as screws, nuts, bolts, tape, wire, etc. should be do***ented somewhere so that when building a car true to the period...it is infact true to the period....

thanks for sparking interest denis4x4

 

Definitely original on the '48...one owner car here.
Another thing...Allen-head screws! '48 has them securing door lock cylinders...I think Ford used them there back to about 1940!
Do***enting industrial p[ractice is pretty hard, as stuff just happens without much record keeping; Ford stuff you can research somewhat. There are "Standard Parts" catalogs released every few years containing all the fasteners that are not special configurations or heat treat on a Ford. I have heard the numbers used are industry wide, but haven't checked as I don't give a rat's *** about what GM was up to in those days.
The commoner parts of these lists are also in all the big Ford parts ***ulations, so you can grab a few years of ch***is parts catalogs and look for phillips trim screws...
Aircraft stuff is also do***ented by A N numbers and specs...and of course anything not Detroit-like on an early rod may well have come out of the aero industry, especially after WWII...Eelco and Moon are nothing more than aircraft industry spin-offs, manufacturing rod parts using WWII aircraft techniques and materials.

 

thanks Bruce,
I'll do some diggin!

 

I wonder what the story is with "clutch head" screws? They were sort of a ****erfly shaped hole in the screw head. My '54 Chevy pickup had a bunch of clutch head screws in the floor and lower doors. I got most of them out using a big flat blade screwdriver, but some had to be drilled out due to rust. I guess they weren't too popular, because I never saw those in any other cars since then.

 

yeah clutch head screws seemed to have been a bad idea, it took me 2 weeks to find a clutch head screwdriver to try and remove some bolts. I wallered out about 90% of them, and on my '40 ford about 100% of the phillips head bolts i destroyed.

 

Those things also hold in the metering blocks in Holley 4160's. Even nastier than Phillips when stuck...impossible to apply much torque.
Phillips on an old car MUST have slots carefully cleaned to give any hope at all of moving them. Smacking a screwdriver in hard with a hammer is a good start...or use an inpact tool, the kind you use with a hammer.

 

Also a pic in the Dean Bachelor book- "Dry lakes and Drag Racing". Allen head bolts on the header of a 4 banger....40's era.

 

Quicky research seems to indicate Allens go way back under other names... so, if someone was using them on a banger in 1938...where did they come from?? I'd guess aircraft industry, maybe oil drilling, some kind of high tech contact point with non-standard hardware for the day.

 

By the way, Wikipedia is a ready source of some, not real well do***ented, info on odd topics like this. Once you have years and names, if you want more go into Google Patent, using advanced search screen. I work in a library, but it is pretty much techless.

 

My early ford V-8 restoration book for 1940 makes a special point in it that henry did not use Philips screws anywhere for 1940

 

I'll check the '41-48; seems to me '41 was the beginning of those. Maybe I can dig up some Standard Parts lists and see when they start appearing...
Is this Industrial Archaology we're doing here??
This brings up another question: What year are you guys living in?? I kinda think most HAMBers have themselves implicitly located in some specific point in the past...

 

Then ... there is the "ROBERTS Head" - square hole in the head of the screw - that was used by FORD in Canadian ***embled Model "A's" and up.
(window moldings, step plates, even the dash covers)
There has been may arguments with the 100 pointer restorers over the use of these.

The Roberts screws have the benefit of "sticking" on the end of the driver in ANY position.
(try that, with a slot or Phillips type screw!!)

Here in Canada, the Roberts head type screws - all kinds - vastly out number "slot" type screws.
But oddly enough; dry wall sheeting screws are still Phillips.

 

interesting info...
thank god that I could care less about which type of screws I use....

Are you guys going for the ridler, or pebble beach? LOL

I understand the idea of a period build, but this is some definate attention to detail.

 

And down here...we have what are basically large drywall screws with Robertson heads made specifically for installing outdoor decks.
Supposedly there were negotiations between Robertson and Ford USA that broke down because Ford didn't want to pay the royalties.
This year's barnshow at Sixcarbs place had a '30 Canadian roadster present... easily spotted by Robertsons on the windshield lower stanchions.

 

The name is "Robertson".

Ford wanted the design rights to the Roberstson screws,
since it saved time in ***embly,Robertson wouldn't give up
control of his design.

So Ford commissioned the Philips head screw design.
Generally accepted to be an inferior design,
by anyone who has used both.

 

1932-1945
mainly 40-41

 

Watch out for the draft...and the s**** drive is gonna get your rod while you're cooling your heels in Ulithi...

 

Clutch head

Originated by United Screw and Bolt. The recess in clutch heads looks like a bowtie. In a pinch, a clutch head screw can be driven by a slotted screwdriver. A worn tip on a driver can easily be restored by grinding off the end. Clutch head screws were popular in mobile home construction and electric motors. The size is the diameter in inches of the bit point. <SUP>1</SUP>&#8260;<SUB>8</SUB>&#8243;, <SUP>5</SUP>&#8260;<SUB>32</SUB>&#8243;, <SUP>3</SUP>&#8260;<SUB>16</SUB>&#8243;, <SUP>1</SUP>&#8260;<SUB>4</SUB>&#8243;, <SUP>5</SUP>&#8260;<SUB>16</SUB>&#8243;

Also people confuse Reed and Prince with the phillips head screws;
Frearson head screws

A later cross drive system referred to in ANSI standards as type II recess. Originated by Reed & Prince, it is sometimes referred to by that name. Now found mostly on marine hardware. Note the difference in points: Frearson has sharper V (75&#176. Any frearson driver fits all Frearson screws.

 

I'm confused. I don't understand the question or the answer. You're living in the future? This is clearly the year 1927. And, who is this Philip Head guy you're talking about, and who did he screw? Is he in prison until 1938 for this?

 

T-time...hey, isn't that the guy who invented the kerosene powered impact wrench?

 

ha I think period correct hardware is vital.
Im living in 1961 by the way bruce.
I love ford bolts! they are so much nicer than the modern **** I cant avoid here (its too far to the nearest aircraft supply for decent bolts for me.)
I do A LOT of wire wheeling on old bolts and use them whenever i get the chance. a guy i know who wrecks old fords lets me strip every nut and bolt before the really ****ty rusty shells go to the crusher..ooh its fun.
the early sixties body bolts with the wide shoulder and little serrations underneath? gorgeous.
i think i need therapy.

 

Ahh yes; your right.

But I guess I have fallen into the habit of asking for a " #2 Roberts",
saves some breath!

 

Bruce: Any car freak who worked in the Tool & Die trade always stole enough socket head cap screws (Allen bolts) to build his car. Dies were built with socket heads as far back as the beginnings of the auto industry.

 

i thought chevrolet was the only one to use clutch head.