History Photos taken before WW2 - history in black and white

That photo was most definitely not taken in 1908 - although the car is similar to a surviving unrestored example which can be found on google. For starters they did not have black rubber tyres with tread on them in 1908. This car looks as though it is an unrestored original taken when it was about 40-50 years old. Check out some pictures taken at early antique car events and you will see the same style of tyre. Note also the headlight sitting cockeyed. I think the museum needs to recheck its archives.​

 

Note also the aftermarket headlights.

 

I guess the guy on the Harley is William Lyons?

 

I believe so.

 

Modern Mechanix - 1931

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/category/transportation/automotive/page/5/

 

http://www.soriano-outboard.com/23325.html?*session*id*key*=*session*id*val*

 

http://blog.wellsfargo.com/mte/mt-search.cgi?IncludeBlogs=8&search=produce

 

http://www.policeny.com/rmps1930s1.html

 

http://www.prewarcar.com/magazine/u...ine-update-1908-clement-bayard-gp-001298.html

 

actually , belly pans , or engine pans were quite common until the late teens , they didn't have great gaskets so the engine often leaked oil , a lot of oil . most were removed because they are a real pain for maintenance , and worst of all the updraft carbs of the day were notorious for flooding , a lot of these antiques were lost in fires for that reason . just by the way , the real credit for i.d on the berliet goes to my friend skip marketti at the nethercutt collection in c.a . skip knows everything there is to know about antiques and classics , he's been a pebble beach judge and curator for auto museums for more than 40 years . thanks

 

What kinds of cars are these, Austins? I'm fascinated by the little bobber "sedan" body. Any more pix or links? Thanx, Gary

 

I think it may be a 1906

 

Gary, that pic looks like the humble beginnings of Jaguar- they made aftermarket bodies for Austins, I think they were called "Swallows".

 

Interesting... might have some potential! Thanx, Gary

 

I've seen them referred to in contemporary writing as sod pans which seems descriptive of their intended purpose.

It looks just as much like Carmen Biada in an Alco with personalized hubcaps, We're not convinced

 

On Swallow
http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/history_swallow_sidecars.htm











An Ariel with a Swallow - or vice versa.

http://www.cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/ariel/Ariel_RH_Hunter_with_Swallow_Sidecar.htm

 

Yes they are Austin chassis, receiving Swallow bodies. The company was originally Swallow Sidecars, which was later shortened to SS. The built the SS1 and SS2 coupes in the early '30s, then the SS90 and SS100 sports cars, and then the cars became SS Jaguars. The SS name had the wrong connotations by the mid 1930s so it was dropped and the rest is history.

 

I had not heard of Carmen Biada so googled her to find lots of stuff in Spanish. Seems she had an engineering pedigree being the granddaughter of the founder of Spanish railways and married into an engineering business with automotive connections - Elizalde cars amongst other thing. What more can you tell us? Some info here - along with all sorts of other stuff - http://f1box.ligasmotor.es/showthread.php?p=2261

 

LGS I only know she bore a resemblance to the mystery B car woman and so did her B



Just a curious aside and another railroad connection. I never realized that tipo 48 was so big

 

Thanks for your great explanation on belly pans.....

As to the Berliet and with all due respect to Skip who is a very knowledgeable person, I was wondering if you had read the posts about the B car after you last post ?? Myself and others would really like to know the origin of this car and it would be great if Skip was correct. I have my doubts about it being a Berliet but would like to see anything that Skip has that is a positive ID of this incredible car. Thanks..... T-H

 

Thanx to all for the info and links. I had no idea this is where Jag started. Neat. I've always thought the SS cars were just beautiful, too, of course. Gary

 

It is obviously a big car but I am guessing not bigger than a contemporary Hispano-Suiza or Isotta-Fraschini. I see the tyre size is 955x155 so I think the guy looking at the badge is not much more than 5 feet tall.

 

--------------------
ALTERNATE CAPTION - "Bill 'Lumpy' Jenkins Sr. (patriarch of the Jenkins clan and grandfather of '60's & 70's champion drag racer Bill 'Grumpy' Jenkins!) could hardly contain his excitement as he thought of the stir it would create and all the ink he'd get in the car mags of the day (and the prospect of his photo appearing via the Internet on the H.A.M.B., 83-plus years later even!), when he unveiled his new and aptly named 'Stovebolt On Steroids' mountain motor-powered' big block Pro/Stocker at the upcoming '27 'Winternationals' at Pomona!!!"

Mart3406
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Thinking of big engines, if anyone hasn't seen this project, it is worth a look. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=468936 It will take you a couple of hours to go through it.

 

"The 12.8 litre Argyll sleeve valve aero-engine on the Company's test stand in early March, 1914 prior to being sent to London for the Olympia Show held from mid-to-late March. Alongside the engine are designer Henri de Perrot, managing director Col. John Smart Matthew and father of the single sleeve valve engine, Peter Burt, then aged 58. The graphics on the photo were obviously done in a hurry as evidenced by the reversed "n" in Alexandria, the incomplete "E" in Perrot, the misspelt "AERO", confusion over the stroke of the engine and the lower case spelling of the "Burt" name! (Glasgow University Archive Services)"

http://www.enginehistory.org/pioneering_sleeve_valve.htm

​

 

For those not familiar with metrics that engine is just less than 5" bore by just less than 7" stroke and is 12.9 litres or about 786 cubes - not actually all that big by aeroengine standards..
I presume this is the same M. Perrot who was responsible for designing the front brake setup used on some 1920s English cars (and others?).

 

Don't get me wrong--it's a great photograph, but....

Agreed--this photo was taken post WW2, and that is not Tommy Russell at the wheel, unfortunately. I have seen this same photo identified as Tommy in 1908 in other locations, but it just isn't so.
I actually have the same snapshot on the wall of my garage, along with a number of other cars that were in the same collection/museum at the time. This car is now (and I believe at the time of the photo) part of the Western Development Museum, and is painted a rather awful baby blue. I think it may have been red at one time as well--also not my choice.
The museum identifies the car as a 1907 Model L:

This is the 1907 Russell car bought by Fred Green, an organizer with the Saskatchewan Grain Growers' Association, in the early years of the 20th century. The car is part of the Saskatchewan Western Development Museum collection and is on exhibit at the WDM in Moose Jaw.
The Russell was the first truly successful Canadian car. It was first built in Toronto by bicycle-maker Canada Cycle and Motor Company (CCM) in 1905.
According to the original owner's daughter, the car caused quite a sensation on the streets of Moose Jaw in 1908.

In blue:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/saskwdm/4663243271/in/photostream/

Period photo:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/saskwdm/4663884560/in/photostream/

 

Its an Autocar c. 1911 Touring car

 

Henry Perrot, Henri Perrot, Henry De Perrot - Yes, not just English cars and much earlier than the 1920's.

Perrot and John M Rubery held an English patent (#6807) in 1910.

Vincent Bendix, in the US, acquired rights from/with (depends on what you read) Perrot. Perrot had been supplying US makers prior to the association with Bendix. Bendix then supplied General Motors.

 

Knox automobiles - 1906.

http://www.american-automobiles.com/Acme-2.html



1908

http://www.vintagemaineimages.com/media/images/450/75/12124.JPG



http://www.vintagemaineimages.com/media/images/450/75/8683.JPG



http://tomsmodelts.com/galleries-speedster.html

http://indymotorspeedway.com/500d-09.htm