+pics(I cant belive im actually contemplating this) So i go to the paint jobber ...

Tganks for the input redline !
Believe me , I'd rather not use the lacquer as a base, its not about being cheap either.
Its about the damn color, and whatever is mixed into the paint.
Lots of experiments and spray outs have been done. Most are pretty cool , a few are not. But there's one that does what this does to this extent.

I took the fender out side this morning.
It was incredible to watch the paint as the sun played peekaboo thru the clouds

 

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/?page_id=175

Here's s discussion about urethane clear over lacquer.
Its really not that big of a deal

 

That fender will fit on anything, little hammer and dolly, section and weld, & you could put that fender on a Willys too

 

i like that a lot. that looks damn good. it was worth the wait and wonder.

 

One more quick comment. I spent almost 30 years with an automotive paint company so I sort of have a p***ion about it. Putting cans in the freezer to lower the pressure before emptying them is probably a bad idea. The resins are designed to take so many freeze/thaw cycles before they are destroyed. Sometimes that number is 1, sometimes, 4-5. We used to do a single freeze cycle on a test sample of paint before shipping and sometimes even a single cycle would ruin the batch. Just a thought.

No matter, I still love what you are doing. Thinking outside the box!!!

 

Well, I was out in the shop today, to try and do a few things in the quiet, and I played around with some colors for you.
I went to Pep Boys (under protest) to find that DUplicolor paint you are so carzy about.
found it and brought it home. Sprayed out a mall panel with it, then shot come candy black over it. It' pretty nice, but nothing spectacualr, if you ask me. This version may be a coat darker that yours, but it is still a decent baseline. Here's the base, and the candy coaed version.

 

Next, I tried my first thoughts how to duplicate it, or improve on it. On this piece, I just sprayed a coat of black primer. No need to get fancy just need black.
Over the black I put a coat of HOK candy apple red, mixed with a tiny bit of gold micro flake. the 2 more coats of red (no flake). clear on top of everything.

 

Next, just to show you that the red underneath really isn't important, I shot a generic spray bomb of red engine enamel. Now it looks yellowy-orangey in the picture, because of the halogen lighting ( replicatuing your pics!), but it is just a slightly orange tinted red.
Then a coat of black candy (Alsa concentrate with HOK clear), again with a pinch of micro flake, then 2 more coats of the candy black (no flake), and final clear.

 

Last, an experiment. Plain old Orion silver base, from HOK, with some of the left over red candy and black candy (no extra flake) mixed together...3 coats & clear. Might be a bit light, but if you darkened the silver base with some black, it might be a good match, as well.

all this goes to show you that you can get similar results, using many different methods and colors, if you play around. SOme of my examples are a bit dark or light, compared to what you want, but it is easy to change them by darkening or lightening the base, or putting more or less candy on the car. All my paints, except the engine enamel and your Duplicolor, were off the shelf in my shop, durable, easily found basecoats and urethanes. Long lasting, too! And HOK really isn't as expensive as some of the OEM metallic and pealr colors, either. Bases are usually about 42 a quart, 60 a quart of candy, 130 a gallon of clear. Activator is 54 a qaurt, and reducer is 52 a gallon.
I priced out doing a GTO in a factory Caddy tricoat, and it was hundreds more than doing it in HOK candy.

 

Thanks chop !
I did this fender for you. You wanted a sample right ?
Shipping or driving up still up in the air.
Here's the thing I find very pleasing to my eye. It's black- pure black. No muddy mica ****, no pearly haze, no red flake that looks like dirt in the black, no metal flaked black that looks dusty and in need of a wash. There's none of that and I hate all of those things.

Next is when the sun grabs it, it pops red. Not a form of "arrest me red" but a candy apple red just like on a red apple red in the display case. Maybe it just reminds me of my grand parents getting me candy apples from Macy's when I was a kid or maybe it's just cool as hell. It's actually kind of spooky looking.

Here's what I have tried the black candy over- Pale pink, pepto bismol pink, light blue, medium blue, 4 different dark blue heavy metallic, silver metallic, gold metallic, custom silver and gold mix ( btw perfect for torque thrusts) pomegaranet metallic, purple, Chevy orange, copper, yellow, heavy metallic green, obnoxious bright green metallic, 5 different
reds, red and silver mixes for a bright metallic pink, purple and silver mixes, champagne, some of these colors were done twice with and without additional flake. There's a **** load of them here ! I'm going to cover a wall with them.
That's a lot of experiments!

Out of all of those that red is the best but a random red set me on that trail- one of the metallic blues is second ( although similar, the others don't do it ) - third would be a custom mixed silver and red metallic pink). I was almost set on the one blue until I found that red.

So , did you just clear the red?

 

I think what's happening here is the black obscures the red with pure black & highly reflective.
The bright light penetrates the black clear and reaches the red. The red catches and reflects what it can back thru the black. Out of the can its a very bright red with lots of metallic. Like looking at bright light with sungl***es on or Like the oven's black gl*** when you turn the light inside on. Wrong red means the pop is different or not enough or a strange blacky reddish look, kinda cool but not like the sample here.

Just a guess but it's cool

 

what is the black candy your useing

 

Dxm 219

 

Most of the samples I did look almost pure black when there's not a lot of light shining on them. The metallics really pop when you put some strong light on them. The pics might be deceiving...you can see what look like flakes, even in the black primer, and red engine paint samples, though there isn't any flake in them...it's just how the halogens are lighting up the hi's and low's in the clear. So the "flakiness" is exaggerated with this lighting.
I think the "color" you hit upon, is really more of a question of putting the right amount of candy black over a metallic base. If you like the red, the base needs to be red. BUt in general, putting black candy over a color always makes it black with a hint of the base color in strong light. The amount of metallic lighting up when the sun hits it is totally dependant on how much black candy is covering it. More black= less flake effect.
I believe the color you like was just a matter of your hitting the mix of candy + amount of coats just right for the effect you want, NOT a matter of what paint it was. Almost any red with flake would do the same, with the "right" amount of candy over it.
But if you could see the black with candy red over it, it looks almost exactly like the red with black over it, it both low light , and halogens on it.
I'd try experimenting a bit more, before you spend the money to send me a fender, I' think if you do your "experiments" carefully, varying the amount of candy over your bases, you'll get it. Just be sure to carefully mix the candy into the clear so you can duplicate the strength of it later, as well as record the amount of coats, how much overlap, and distance form the panel and air pressure, as ALL of these are important in determining how the candy will look. (more so when doing a bright candy color, harder to "see" how much black goes on over a base, compared with , say, a red over silver.)

 

Oh I forgot to mention how I did these sprayouts - everyone of them on a 9.5x16 piece. Based complete ( some had the plate divided length wise for two base colors) then masking paper was put on like shingles every two inches. This gave me the ability to see 1-8 coats. The blackness was gauged against true black up the scale. You should be able to see the end results of the shingle taping process in the pics I sent you.
I tried to be real thorough and repeatable.

Long time ago in the process I tried the red blue and purple candies over black in the same shingle tape. Not what I'm looking for, it doesn't look black against true black.

I'm more than reasonably certain my experiments are complete as far as the look I'm after.
How to get the look with durable materials may be open for a long time yet.
I would like to get the base out of something other than rattle can lacquer.

 

The percentage of dye in the clear makes a difference too.
At higher percentage less coats (like 3-4) are required to get black coverage.
This causes several problems, the coats must be even and they seem to obscure more of the color. It still works but it is noticeably different.

At a lower percentage more coats are required ( like 6-8) are required to get black coverage. This makes the requirement of perfectly even coats much more forgiving. It also makes the pop quite a but more dramatic. However this makes the mills thicker, and doubles the chance of dirt in it.

At even lower percentages even more coats are needed( 10-14)
At these levels even coverage is no longer an issue. The chance of **** in it is pretty high. But wet sanding it out doesn't cause problems. The mills are too thick and likely to cause a lot of trouble. The pop looses much of its drama but its still pretty cool.

 

Bump

 

So here's a question to consider...I know people are worried about the inferiority of rattle can paint - certainly this is true of the alkyd enamels and their lack of UV protection (although in some ways it does make their use more 'period'). How does this apply to the DupliColor lacquer in question? Is it the binders that will break down and fade/chalk? Is it possible that the DXM topcoat will offer sufficient UV protection?

 

This is my thinking also -
In the pph line dbc500 is used for base and mid coats , it has no uv protective qualities. Then the uv protective clear is applied over that. If you we're to shoot plain old dbc500 it's an air cured clear that can be wet sanded and buffed. From my other thread "urethane clear over lacquer color coat" I was reminded that the dbc500 will stick to lacquer and urethane

 

in 1982 my car was painted lacquer with enamel clear over it. i put lots of miles on it [back then] and it still looks and held up fine. if the car is for recreational use it will hold up. if it is for a daily driver, driven in slop, and exposed to day to day hazards and abuse. you probably would want something better.

 

Here is an idea, based on what I think you may be seeing.

Hyundai has a color called Black Plum. It flops a purple pearl in direct light, but black in indirect. Somewhat "direct" flop, no mistaking the plum in the light. Code is X3 or X3B

Honda has a more subtle color, Nighthawk Black. A very subtle blue flop in direct light. Code is B92P

Work from these colors, but have the paint mixer exchange the plum/ blue factors for red?

 

Thanks for the heads up

 

Yeah... I'm that friend. I had Pretty good luck getting the paint out with one of the hose adapter thingies from the do it yourself R12 can. I also used one of the valves that you use to tap a water line for an ice maker. Messy business. I found it takes a long time to cure too. But it actually squirts out and lays pretty nicely. I found it to take a long time to cure. I have heard of people adding hardener. I have added hardener to oil based rustolium by the gallon with good result.

 

Bump up for some more fun

 

You know in order to accomplish this , one needs to do everything it says "do not " do on the label

 

Coool paint, I like where your headed, and I hate always 'going by the book' too....

 

Are we done with this one ?

 

Pics

From my new IPhone whoo hooo

How'd I do on buffing all that **** out of it ? Lol

 

That's pretty awesome !

 

Another one .
Thanks swade