Pictures of a broken cast I-beam axle

I deal with aircraft parts every day of the week at work, mission critical flight pieces for the most part. Anything that is made from a forged blank has a great strength advantage to something that is cast. Of course the price is higher for the forged piece.

As far as bending any axle, I was taught to always bend them cold, but you can do whatever you want if I don't have to ride in it.

Bob

 

You're getting closer.

The spheres are always there, once the innoculant is introduced that part is certain unless you've burned it off with long hold times. Varying solidification rates result in different nodularity percentages, nodule versus flake. Post cast heat treat allows the remaining flake to convert but simultaneously allows small spheres to join into larger ones. Heat treat isn't really a switch that can flip the microstructure back and forth, more like a one way street that eventually leads to bad place if you miss your turn. I've spent years in a university ductile project pouring and analyzing, for the most part the casting process determines what comes out of the heat treat furnace. Until you've been there it's hard to sift that reality out of metallurgical texts, but it is reality.

As far as the thousands of alloys part, there's a sh*tload of base irons to start from, but most of those are special because of grain refiners far less powerful than a ductile innoculant. So really there's only a handful of base irons that are used, no need to waste $$ on unnecessary alloy additions. Then there's only a handful of innoculants, and the vast majority use magnesium, so because of manufacturing reasons most ductile/nodular irons end up being pretty close alloy-wise

Damn this thread led to some good stuff

 

That's probably where my confusion lies.

I've had a couple of metallurgy classes when I was in engineering school, and I've even made a couple of pours, but never ductile iron. The school's foundry mostly did aluminum, but once or twice a year they'd do a gray iron pour as well. I've made two different molds and poured them in aluminum, and helped with one that was done in gray iron.

It would have been cool to have gotten to help with a ductile pour, but they never really checked the alloys or anything like that, so they may not have even been set up for that kind of process.

Gotta love the HAMB though. Where else are you going to bump into a metallurgist when you really need one?

 

I'm not a metallurgist, I'm a foundryman who often has to protect his turf from a metallurgist on a witch hunt

 

I'd have to say the drunk driving had more to do with it than the manufacturing process of the axle its' self. My $0.02.

 

Ah, even better.

You have hands on experience to complement your knowledge (AKA book lernin').

 

thank you for the technical info. I just got a big crate of ductile iron forks in and will be machining them soon, I always hope the stuff is done correctly to aerospace standards, since one arm of the fork is spinning off balance at high rpm with me looking at it. No cnc only old fashioned manual machining.

 

Since this post was brought up in another debate today, I thought I'd add my experience just to muddy the waters.

For what it's worth, mine was a Superbell. This is how it came out after a 45 mph head-on collision (70-80 mph combined force of impact).









And here is where it lives now.


As you can see it bent, but did not break. I was quite impressed. I've since ordered 2 new Superbell axles for my Model A projects - one plain 4" drop and one plain 4" drop and drilled.

 

Glad to chimed in I have a superbell under my A but it is not on the road yet.
Have had other people tell me it was weak axle and should have gone forged but it is on the car now and will stay there.

 

This is/was one of those long running threads.
Lots of opinions, lots of facts.

The first time the subject came to light; I had just done some research on various metals used in automotive suspensions.

One interesting piece was how Ford - from their archives - was trying to convince people that the beam axle that was being used under the "T's", "A's" and all the way up to the '50's, was safe, and would not BREAK under normal conditions.

To demonstrate the strength, they fastened each end of the axle in a huge lathe.
One end was fixed and the other grasp in the rotating chuck.
They twisted the axle TWENTY! times, removed it from the lathe and re-installed it in a vehicle.

Oh ... it didn't break

 

Ibought a 1959 Dodge Town Panel and when i got home the front axel must have hit a tree stump,Nice round shape about 4inches deep but didnt break...............JB

 

It has been awhile ive sen my bent axel on the TP .Its not bent 4 inches its bent 2 1/2 in sorry for mis info..................YG

 

Just saw this pic in the Vintage Modifieds Thread:



That forged I-Beam is most definitely broken. . . . . . . . along with most of the rest of the car.

It CAN happen though!

 

Uhmm, may sound like a stupid question, but, are the original Henry's forged or cast??

Forgive my ignorance in advance.

 

Bet it didnt Happen before the crash.

 

my ?is how do you adjust the camber on a cast axle???

 

Jesus, some of you folks are humorless wonks.

I even put the big grin smiley!!!

SEE!!!

 

Yes my son

 

http://www.volksrods.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30628

what the hell happened here?

 

the axle did break. and under a lightweight vw shouldnt have happened. who cares about it being under a vw. its parts some of us use.

 

Another guy posted this wanted to know the same.....It almost looks like there were too many springs in the stack, resulting in a very stiff front end, cracking the beam just past the spring perch and hairpin mount.

How many leafs should be in a small cars axles ty.

 

At one of the 1930s World's Fairs, Henry Ford had a giant lathe installed that would twist his I-Beam axles like a piece of licorice to show their strength. I do not believe you could ever break an original Ford Forged I-Beam Axle, it will just bend.

I asked Bob Stewart, the son of Ed Stewart who manufactured the original hammered Dago axles if he had ever heard of a Dago axle breaking. He said, he had never seen or heard of a Dago axle breaking. He did say that he had seen cast axles break and he had also seen aftermarket tube axles break. I would never use a cast axle!
Here is photo from my collection that shows the strength of an early Ford forged axle. I believe this photo was taken at El Mirage around 1947.

 

Exactly.

He hit a semi hard enough to bend the chassis for goodness sake.

Anything can break gives the proper circumstamce. I prefer forged axles myself but I think we are comparing apples to oranges here.

 

Go Back and read page 5 the cast axle broke in 2 places. it was built by Magnum and sold by Speedway

 

********************************************************************
I've seen this axle. Bill Perry has it on display at his "All Ford Parts" store in Campbell, CA.
This twisted Ford axle was demonstrated at the mid-1930s Chicago World's Fair.

By the way: I was in the Frame & Wheel trade for nearly 50 years. When bending axles to straighten them, (cars, pickups, and big rigs) you bend them COLD!
Chev pickups and early pass cars bend with 2-2.5 tons, Fords require 6-7 tons. FYI...

 

I think what he was getting at was the axle broke upon impact, not broke and then he crashed. or at least if you read the dudes post thats what i get from it, he said link pin, but he doenst exactly know what hes talking about and later he said perch bolt, well if you look at the picture of the bug the swivil perch bolts and stuff are all still atatched to the broken axle. so we dont extactly know what broke first but the guy says it wasnt the axle that broke first.

if under the correct circumstances anything can break, ive seen many many bent ford axles, but never a broken one, im sure some have, but i havent seen any.

i would never be scared to run a cast axle in my car either, i wont becuase i like early ford dropped axles but it wouldnt bother me a bit to do it.

Accidents cause many things that would normally never brake break.

 

My bad when I looked closer I see where it sheered off. I just had a knee jerk reaction when I saw what it was on. This is a forum for traditional hot rods not vws.-Weeks

 

something broke, he said the front dipped down while driving and lost control. on relatively new parts, on such a light car. must be some cheap ass stuff.

 

You mean this pic??


-As early as 1914 Ford was advertising that HE had perfected 14 different types of steels and Irons all of which were being used in various parts of the '14 T.

Ford clearly stated that if you ever did bend your axle (via accident or severe abuse) that it was to be bent back COLD.

No heat should ever be used to tweak an axle in order to re align the front end.

In an early sales brochure I had thought I had seen and read of a T axle that was twisted an amazing 14? revolutions and although it was tightly wound, there were no cracks or breaks in the beam.