I have no tricks for you but an anecdote...in our fab shop at work are two world-class fabricators that used to work for Roush Racing...in fact they were amongst the lead fabricators way back in 1997 when Tommy Kendall won 11 straight Trans-Am races in the All-Sport Roush Mustang...it's quite an amusing site to see engineer after engineer basically begging these two fine gents to give them any kernel of advice when Pinewood Derby time comes around every year...the smart ones swallow their pride and listen. The losers don't.
when i was in scouts many years ago my dad built race wheels for alot of the northeast drivers . i dont remember some of the tricks but i do remember my dad asking jerry cook(nascar modified, later nascr offical) to be a judge . he came and called the race and judged best in show .
My brothers were Cub Scouts (I wasn't), and my youngest brother built a car that used the usual weight and balance tricks, along with polished axles and graphite, to beat every car in his troop except one - mine. To explain: just for fun I picked up a kit and carved it up to resemble a lakes roadster (long streamlined nose, channeled T body) and did the same tricks to make it fast, plus an idea of my own - I lightened the wheels by drilling big holes all around the sidewalls and through the tread. After the event, we put our cars on the track and I beat him 3 out of 3. (His car went on to a regional event but lost out on the second round.) That night I took a pen and lettered on the decklid "Winner - Unofficial Pinewood Derby, March 12, 1976". Just curious - would it be legal to drill out the wheels like that? I didn't see anything in the rules about it back then.
On my first and only pinewood car, I used a very tiny drop of veggie oil on the axle ends instead of graphite....No one cought on... The car came in second...
Another trick to sneak up on the weight is to use thumbtacks to fine-tune it. My dad helped me do this with mine, and I helped my son do it with his. They can look like headlights or taillights (or just be peppered over the bottom if you're off more than you thought - scales vary widely). My dad always put the weight in mine mostly centered by epoxying in an old number stamp. It always got us real close. I won 1st in my pack three years in a row and they wouldn't let me run the fourth year - said I hadn't attended enough meetings (my first year of little league football), but said I could represent them at district - got 3rd. I used fishing weights for my son's - mostly evenly distributed, but favoring the back - pounded them flat and carved a place for them on the bottom and epoxied them in. We spun the axles in a drill and used emery paper and he had the fastest track time and missed out by .100 second on overall 1st (had one bad run where his car obviously wasn't on the rails at the start, but still caught the 2nd & 3rd cars...and he beat the overall winner in a head-to-head fun race after the official racing. Regionals are this weekend - hope I'm in town!
when i was young, my dad and i made a derby car that looked like a '32 roadster with most of the weight up front and we took 1st against a bunch of aerodynamic blocks lol
Great thread. Brings back lots of memories. I was cub master and therefore "chief starter" for 3 years. You can have the best car in the world (no matter who built it) but if the starter doesn't align the cars perfectly and consistently for every car for every race, craftsmanship takes a back seat to staging and therefore the outcome.
My Dad would take the kits and then give them back to us after he was done working all the gray areas and the wheels on the lathe. There was talk of graphite and mercury too. He did let me sand the body though. I miss those simple times.
Brave new progressives insist on ALL the kids getting a trophy. (also want girls to be eligible to join the BOY Scouts) (!) Times simply aren't 'simple' any longer. And the Derby cars are just one example.
All I can say is that when I was in Beavers, (the young kids for Scouts Canada), the car my mom helped me build won. It was boat tail speedster. Slick paint job, max weight, quick as all get out. Won an award for first place, and for best looking. The next year, I built my own... Looked like I chewed one end of the block off and dyed it with a popsicle. It goes without saying that I didn't win that year. Guess which car I was proud of? As a kid, I found no 'fun' in finishing last. People telling me that "it's ok, because I tried my best" didn't help. There's the winner, and there's everybody else. That's how I saw it as a kid, and I bet that's how kids see it today.
Lightly run the wheels against a belt sander, to remove the mold lines. The wheels are sometimes very uneven, right out of the box. 4TTRUK
Our first attempt at PWD cars taught me a lesson about graphite. It has a break-in period. Make a few runs before the actual competition if you polish the wheels,axles, and use graphite.
As mentioned the wheels and weight are the key. "WE" used to add grooves to the outer ends of the axels before "WE" polished them to reduce friction plus the groves retained more graphite. "WE" also beveled the axel heads to reduce the friction area on the wheel hub. "WE" always trued the wheels up in a lathe adding a very slight crow to the wheels. That way the wheels ride on the narrow crown area. It worked better on bumpy tracks than a narrow rib or a beveled wheel plus it was less obvious.
Man, you guys take this stuff pretty seriously. we used a completely non-modified block of wood that comes with the kit. Didn't even paint it. Glued a patch of fake grass to the top. We could drop BBs into the fake grass at weigh-in until the car reached almost the absolute maximum weight. You can get really close to the max weight with BBs. Best part is, the kid can do that himself. We won our races, but apparently that isn't the point anymore. Everyone gets an award for something.... My kid knows what's up though, and he was proud.
Last winter was my Grandson Ike's first PWD put on by the AWANA program at Church,... The 5 y.o. class forbid anything except for weight and paint,... they called them the first year "Block Cars",.... Ike got put on the trailer in the 3rd. heat. But he had a good time.... There is a retired engineer that wins every year in the "open adult class",.... He's going to have his work cut out for him next winter !!! Here's my lil' Buddy !,.. Ike my Grandson,.. PaPa might have helped with some of the paint job just a little,.. but he was there with me all the time, and tried out the air brush.
Here we are Getting close to derby time. I am helping with Cub Scouts this year. So one of the other leaders threw th gauntlet. We "adults" will be doing it this year. An unlimited class. I was thinking of going 15 inches. What is optimum length and weight. Remeber no rules. Tim
Both my sons were in Cub Scouts, and we did Pinewood Derby Cars for several years. Here is what we did. #1 took the router to the bottom of the car, melted old wheel weights and poured that routed out area full of lead. Drill a hole in the lead and use a counter sunk wood screw to hold the lead into the routed out area. You will have to weigh the car before you run it, trim the lead to the exact weight. #2 the axles are just nails, we would chuck them up in a drill and spin a piece of steel wool to make the axle nice and smooth. #3 glue the axles into the slots #4 use graphite to lube the a[SIZE=4]xle an[SIZE=4]d wheels [SIZE=4]#5 deburr the [SIZE=4]tires - somehow I'd chuck them in a lathe [SIZE=4]and make them smooth. [SIZE=4]good luck, this is lots of fun for kids and dads. [/SIZE] [/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]
BTT!! I just helped my boys build theirs. Actually only one helped very much cause he's 7 and the other is 3, but he "wanted one too"! So my 7 year old picked out the style and after I cut it out he sanded it and I also had him polish up the nails with a dremel. He painted the "details" after I outlined them for him as well. My littlest one wanted a "big rig", so I did the best I could for him. I'll get pics up when I figure out how!! Posted from the TJJ App for iPhone & iPad
I know what you mean, and I agree that the rules get bent a lot. I remember when my son was building derby cars, it was a joint project but he did do a lot of it himself or at least learned a few moves, I at the time worked in a business that called on body shops, and at pinewood derby time every body shop in town was putting thousand dollar paint jobs on chunks of pine 2 x 4s !!!
Well, my 6yr old got the best of show trophy. Got put "on the trailer" in second round tho. My 3yr old won the "friends of the pack" category...against 15 other cars, mainly the dads second car they built!! LOL! Pretty funny that it was the oldest against the youngest, 65 & 3 with the kiddo winning! Posted from the TJJ App for iPhone & iPad
With the fabrication skills taught comes All the trickery passed on to the kid's who learn by example. Double edged sword.
Pinewood Derby for nerds like me...great memories, wish I had my old cars. http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_To_Build_a_Pinewood_Derby_Car/Physics
We ran yesterday. Most of the cars were within a few inches of each other with the exception of the Scout Masters car. It blew everyone off the track. Funny how he did the check in and weight and then didn't allow anyone to touch their cars afterwards. His car probably weighed 2 lbs. Posted from the TJJ App for iPhone & iPad
We ran last night also, first time we ever weighed in right at 5 onces,no one allowed to touch the cars after check in. We were the first race and they called us to fix our car. over night somehow the car upside down in the box, had the tape pulled off and the weights removed . We made the finals but by that time the tape was loose which allowed half the weights to fall out and werent allowed to put them back in, came in 6th out of the 6 cars. It was our last pinewood derby as he is moving to boyscouts. He was still happy we made the finals though ,I guess thats all that matters. OUR SCOUT MASTERS CAR WINS EVERY YEAR ALSO.
X2 - I won first place in 1977 with no help from my dad. I did everything myself. I can remember going back and fourth to the Post office getting the car weighed untill it was just right.
dsiddons, chainsaw, my son and grandson scout master told them that he had not been beat in 6 years, in the dads class, my sons reply was well I guess your winning streak has come to a end, as I will be beating you this year. He played by the rules but took the gray side of the rules to the max, even built a short track at work to run their cars on. My grandson done all his own sanding and painting all his dad done was to put the wheels on and weights in, grandson car finished 6th over all not to bad for a 7 year olds first time, and my son handed the scout master his first loss in 6 years. The scout master told my son when it was all over that he welcomes the competion and will be looking forward to next year.
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