Building 28 fenderless phaeton. Banger, T5, 41 banjo. Rear crossmember kicked up in Tardel fashion and using reverse eye Model A rear spring. I am ***uming about a 4 1/2 inch drop. Front axle dropped 3 1/2 inches and reversed eye spring as well. I am going to weld the spring mounts on "top" of the bells today. I am keeping the torue tube setup as well. Should the pinion angle be paralell to the frame or tilted up a few degrees angled toward the transmission output? 3-4 degrees?
The goal is to have the centerline through the engine/trans to be parallel to the centerline of the pinion shaft. In your case, that would mean your pinion should be up 3 degrees, not "down a couple degrees". Take look at the illustrations posted by mgtstumpy above. Ray
I wonder how everybody envisions changing the the pinion angle on a torque tube? I would put the spring mounts on straight up like a stocker.
Good catch on the OP's post. With a torque tube, the angle will be whatever it takes to connect the tube to the transmission. With a single ujoint, the primary consideration will be that the resulting angle does not exceed the operating angle limit of the ujoint. As for the spring mounts, in my opinion, their position will be determined when the driveline is in place and the frame and rear axle are set to desired ride height. My post above was in response to Joee's comment. Ray
My concerns were with the short drive line of the Model A shortened furthur by the T 5 transmission that the torque tube angle would increase and bind the spring and shackes. Wasn't too concerned about the drive shaft itself.
When set up my torque tube on my coupe project I looked at my stocker and figured about the same angle. What adapter are you using for the t5?
I agree with Tim,the shackles should determine the angle of the torque tube. I used bolt on model A perches and I slotted them a little to line up with transmission and then welded them. No shackle bind. John
I am trying to find one of Dan Bridges' (Crazydaddyo on the HAMB ) as my T5 is an S10 4wd. I have been watching your build Binger. I too am a big guy and will set the phaeton front seat back 3 inches. I like your T5 adapter. Got an extra or a lead on one?
I think you stated it in reverse. The angle of the torque tube, which is governed by ch***is, engine/trans height and rear wheel diameter, will determine the position (angle) of the spring mounts on the axle. Ray
I think we are saying the same thing. Our strategies are the same but what tactics do we use?l want to weld the shackle mounts on before I install the axle seals so as not to damage them with heat. I suppose I could install the hubs/wheels on the bells and leave the axles out and mock up the whole drive line and determine the angle that way. Any suggestions? Tim
Sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do to get it right. If you have the wheels and tires you plan to use you can determine axle centerline from that and place the housing at that height. The ch***is can be placed on supports at desired ride height. That should help zero in on trans output height to determine position of front of torque tube. Once you have those parameters determined, the position of the spring mounts on the axle should be apparent. So, yes, mock it up......before detailed ***embly of axle. Ray
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/index.php?threads/Jeep-T5-trans-in-the-torquetube.256226/ Here is a thread on the one I got from crazy daddy o.
Oh I didn't realize you were already aware of the one I got. I picked mine up several years ago. You might ask over on the banger meet for December.
Pinion angle = crank shaft angle. Crank shaft angle = transmission main shaft angle which is equal to tail shaft angle. That is the basics of it and you can go from there. I am curious how are you keeping the torque tube with the modern ******? Its just a question.
The transmission is a 4wd. An adapter used to be available complete with machined flange,collar,seal and u-joint to adapt the drive shaft and torque tube to the ******. The drive shaft and torque tube have to be shortened appropriate. I am currently trying to find one of the adapters. Hopefully one will surface soon. Tim
I am actually working on this same install in a Model A truck I am building. I'm using the original banger engine with my own adapters to the engine and torque tube. Like other adapters out there, I'm using a 4x4 S-10 T5. I too struggled with what I should set the angle of the torque tube relative to the axis of the crank/transmission output. Since the torque tube only uses one u-joint that is very primitive in design, I settled on making everything inline when the truck is in it's static ride height position. This is because when there is an angle on a u-joint, the output motion of the drive shaft is not consistent. It actually speeds up and slows down in a sinusoidal motion. This is why it is important to have a standard drive shaft with two joints properly timed so that this sinusoidal motion will cancel out. If everything stays inline, the u-joint will not move. That's how the original joints can last for almost 90 years...they do very little work compared to a modern needle roller bearing design. The only time the u-joint will work is when you hit a bump. Since I am lowering the the truck about 4-1/2" in the rear, to keep everything lined up, I actually have to raise the rear on the engine. Also, if you look at the original torque tube setups, they are very close to being inline. That's one of the reasons why the banger motor sits so low in the rear. If your set up requires to have some angle between the torque tube and transmission, it's not the end of the world. It will function fine. It looks like those adapters use a modern 1310 joint. Unless you have a severe angle, you are not going to notice any sinusoidal motion of the drive train. At worst, there might be a slight vibration when you hit a bump.
I have the AA bell on I have the Vintage Metalworks adapter to the AA bell up front. Very nice work. Do you know where I can pick up a rear adapter and ujoint? Tim
I always read you want at least a 2 degree angle at a u joint. If not then the little rollers don't roll and wear little grooves. As said above on an open drive line you want the engine/transmission and the pinion at the same angle but you do not want to end up with everything in a straight line. The diagrams above pretty much show this. Does a closed drive line u-joint have rollers also?
I know ur correct and that's the way I've done it for many years......I let a friend talk me into a down angle.....i'm going to change it to where it should be........THANKS
What do you mean used to be available, Dan has only recently started making them, just call him and ask to order one.
There would be an angle amount, in degrees, where the sinusoidal affect causes a problem. Every revolution would have a speed-up, slowdown pulsing. Hopefully; 3* or less won't raise the issue.
Dan no longer makes them. Dave at Vintage Metalworks in Akron Ohio is taking up the mantle. You can google the Vintage Metalworks blog for more info. Tim
hnstray had it right---If you know what diameter wheel/tire combo you are going to use just set that axle height with jackstands/cinder blocks/4 x 2's/whatever, point the torque tube at the point where it will attach to the transmission and then weld the spring perches where they land. Roo
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