Pinstriping ? about cleanup at 'live' shows...

hey Joe, are you spraying it on the brush or are you filling a container with WD to put the brush in? I think if it were just sprayed on it would evaporate like Ian said, but i would imagine if you used it on a regular basis it wouldn't evaporate that quickly, or if it were in an air tight container.

 

I don't do many shows or do much striping anymore (last couple of years have been full of other ventures).

For the brush box I have the little diddy below. It fits into a larger box that opens at the top with all of my thinners, cups and washout items. I don't know what it is from but it was full of old piano repair stuff.

Sometimes I scale things down to the old wood microscope case shown below.

For cleaning I first hang my brush in the used spirits. I clothes pin it to the lip of an old mason jar and let the spirits start wicking the paint away. I do this while I clean up all of the otherther things I have out. I also hang the brush in the spirits when not in use during "the session" whatever that might be. Usually for no longer than a couple of hours at any given time. HAnging it wicks the paint down the hair instead of laying it on its side in a pan spirits. From there I rinse them in cups of clean spirits till the paint is out. Wipe them clean, oil and put them in a drawer.

 

I would recommend NOT using WD-40 or any other aerosol based petroleum product.I believe that WD-40 contains an element of silicone in it(as do most gun lubricants)which is not only difficult to remove from the brush but if sprayed around paint will contaminate it in short order.The bad thing about using silicone based products is if they are sprayed certain elements will settle to the floor of a shop only to be stirred up by a breeze or even someone walking through.They are near impossible to get rid of once they contaminate an area.

Another product I staunchly refuse to have around my shop is(and I will probably generate a ****storm of opposition)Smoothie;an additive to paint to eliminate fisheyes in finishes.The problem with it is it is pure silicone and if added to paint will make it totally unsuitable to paint over if it is ever needed.I know there are people who swear by it and I respect their opinion.My take on it is if you are getting fish eyes in a paint job,you either have a contaminated surface or environment or you material is suspect.Dumping silicone into the mix only makes it worse.

I have noticed that a lot of fisheyeing takes place in striping when using regular mineral spirits as a reducer for 1-Shot.Since regular spirits is nothing more than highly refined kerosene(or diesel fuel)this should hardly be surprising.Not sure what odorless spirits is refined from,but I never had a fish eye problem when I used it.I use 1-Shot reducers exclusively now to avoid any problems.

Sorry for getting off on a rant;must be the coffee this morning.

 

Anyone ever used Zylene for reducing? I don't know about striping, but when spraying Alkyd enamel (like One Shot is) it drys faster than other reducers, like turp for instance, and mineral spirits as a reducer seems to never dry!

 

Safari, rant on brother. that's what this is here for.

As for the Hoppe's, i'm almost certain there's no silicone in it. On the back it reads "a light, pure, colorless oil..." can't find anywhere that says yes or no, but never had a problem. How's the neatsfoot oil? been using it for the past few days. seems to be good.

-ace

 

Do you mean Xylene ?

Not me.Nasty stuff.
1-Shot Low Temperature Reducer works fine for airbrushing.

 

Use the One shot stuff for reducing. High Temp and Low temp have paid off for me. Never use Xylene if you can help it, and never spray with it! The last thing you want is to get that stuff airborn. Not to say I don't use it, I do. But not for painting and always in a well ventilated environment.

 

I don't think they advertise WD-40 as having silicone in it either.I know several stripers who use neatsfoot oil and are very happy with it.I've never used it because I never knew where to buy it(a lot of people recommend tack shops for purchase).I've used a variety of oils over the years;lard oil(BAD!),ATF,Mystery Oil,whale oil(an old can my grandmother had to lubricate her sewing machine),A/C compressor oil,Sapphire Brush Oil and finally Mack Brush brush preservative.The lighter(viscosity wise)the oil usually the easier it is to clean out of the brush and the better it penetrates into the ferrule.
Usually I prep a new brush by dipping it in brush oil/preservative and standing it brush hair up for a couple days to let the oil wick into the ferrule/thread wrap.When using,I wash it out in a commercial brush cleaner(xylol/toluol.benzine mix)before striping.When finished I give it a cursory cleaning and set it aside.When finished for the day,I give it a more thorough cleaning;finishing up by laying the brush flat and using an old tooth brush clean it gently from heel to tip on both sides rinsing in between.Then dipped in brush oil and put away.
Use of xylene or any similar,"hot"solvent such as toluol or lacquer thinner has an adverse affect on natural bristle brushes in that it removes natural oils in the hairs causing them to become extremely brittle and easily broken.That is why I limit the time I immerse them in brush cleaner.The same thing applies to using natural hair brushes when striping with urethanes.The paint isn't so bad as is the reducers used with them.They really wreak havoc on the hairs.There are a number of synthetic or semi-synthetic brushes on the market specifically designed for use with them;a**** them the Kafkas and the Mack Lite series.

 

Mack carries Neatsfoot Oil,I think the brand name is Fornby's.
It's in their catalog.

That's all I've ever used,a small bottle lasts a LONG time.

If you leave your brushes with Neatsfoot Oil on them for several
months,they will get hard and you will think you are screwed.
A quick rinse in Mineral Spirits,and they are good as new.

 

Xylene, lacquer thinner, MEK and anything like that is way to harsh for the hair. Dries it out and make the bristles brittle. I used to use lacquer to clean and found this out the hard way. Spoke to Mike at 1Shot years ago and got educated on their thinners/reducers. Now I carry like four different cans of reducers, one for each occasion/event.



As for my travel kit, I usually travel with my big folding table. It’s a 2’x4’ plywood top with a galvanized cover – won’t rust. The frame is 1” aluminum square bar stock. I traded that frame for a striping job. On the table, I have my paint box that holds about 35 4 oz. bottles that I store upside down. This makes it easier to see the colors and they don’t dry out as fast. The red box in the photo has been replaced with a newer blue box. The blue box has trays in the lid like a tackle box. In those trays are all my tools. On the tabletop, I keep a little stainless steel dish for cleaning fluid, my brush box and all other supplies that get used most, i.e. paper towels and such. I got the SS dish a long time ago and really like it. It won’t rust and is the perfect size for the brushes.

The brush box it a little plastic parts tray with a lid. The bottom is lined with foam that’s saturated with oil. This box holds all my swords and quills.

On the tray on the bottom of the cart is all my other supplies and a trash can. When I first showed up at striping events with all this, I caught a lot of grief for being like a pack rat. But when those guys needed something, they knew who to ask!

I used to use MS for all cleaning and thinning. I’m now using 1Shot’s stuff. It took me a while to get used to it all but it’s all good now.

Ace, come to Detroit in March to meet most of the best stripers ever. There’ll be over a hundred and prolly two hundred over the course of the weekend. Bring a camera, a note pad and an open mind. Trust me, you won’t be disappointed.

Vance

Oh, and I had to spend my last two dollar bill last week and I'm still pissed off about it...

 

Ever notice,it's the guys that like to brag about how much
money they make,that come around borrowing everything ?

 

You got me thinking - and searching... WD-40 on Wikipedia

Formulation
Main ingredients, from the material safety data sheet, are:

• 50%: Stoddard solvent (mineral spirits, somewhat similar to, but not the same as, kerosene)
• 25%: Liquefied petroleum gas (presumably as a propellant, carbon dioxide is used now to reduce considerable flammability)
• 15+%: Mineral oil (light lubricating oil)
• 10-%: Inert ingredients

I has no silicone, but I still think that you are right - not really a proper storage oil.

- Joe

 

I've been using baby oil on my brushes. Hasn't seemed to hurt.

 

My understanding,Baby Oil is just Mineral Oil,with an added scent.
Should be cheap,and easy to find.

 

I keep the mineral spirits in a couple 8 oz paint cans. Works just fine. I was using neatsfoot oil for preserving the brushes but switched over to Wall Dog Oil. Both work just fine.

I recently resituated my paint kit back to a larger tool box. Has the fold out trays that I've set up to keep every brush but the stripers, plus room for pencils, knife, can opener, etc. I became disenchanted with the plastic bottles and switched to 4 oz. paint cans. Box is damn heavy but I have a collapsible hand truck that I use to wheel it around. For now, anyway. I'm still searching for the perfect solution. Trial and error, just like anything else.

 

I gave up on the plastic bottles too.Great if you stripe all day,every day.
The time savings more than cover the material wasted.
---
Stanley makes a nice looking 3 piece box,with built in wheels and handle.
Goes by the name Fat Max. Should be able to find them at Home Depot.

 

One thing I haven't heard yet, for storring brushes is Automatic ****** fluid… That's what Ed Roth used! He showed me his kit in 1992 and that's what was in there… Any thoughts on the use of that stuff? Seems like it would be too harsh…

I use the One-Shot Brush Condisioner myself. But I'm largly self taught so I'm always open to learn how to do it better.

Dose One-Shot sell oderless thinners? Between house painting for years and striping, thinner fumes are really starting to get too me… But I'd like to stick w/the One-Shot stuff.

 

Any decent hardware place should have Odourless Mineral Spirits.
The last gallon I bought was around $8 US with tax.


I use it just for cleaning brushes,and wiping off big mistakes.
After wiping a panel with it,i go over it again with gl*** cleaner
to get rid of the oily residue.

 

Thanks! It's time I switch…

Gl*** cleaner like "Windex"? I've heard alcohol b***ed cleaners leave a film behind too? Or do you use something different?

 

Straight Alcohol can leave behind a white residue on some surfaces.
I quit using it,because i couldn't get rid of the residue.

Alan Johnson uses some aerosol spray on gl*** cleaner.
The kind that foams up.

The stuff I've been using is Lemon scent Windex,that I diluted.
Works well enough for removing greasy finger prints and layout lines.
Also works well for killing static on plastic panels,
spray,wipe off most of it quickly,let air dry.

Some people say not to use cleaners with Ammonia on 1-Shot.
I guess I've been lucky.

 

Also have to be careful with Amonia on Lexan.

 

Man, that is SOOOO true!!!

I always clean everything with a DuPont wax/grease remover and then go back over it with Gl***Plus. The Gl***Plus evaporates pretty fast and leaves no residue while removing the slow drying wax/grease remover.

I try to stay with the original formula stuff; EasyOff oven cleaner too. I always carry a yellow can. I'm real **** about sticking with name brands once I find something I like. Drives my wife crazy because she buys what's on sale and that is rarely what I want. Brawny paper towels is another favorite name.

Vance

 

Bounty used to be good,because the sheets were scored 1/2 size.
That's plenty for small clean up jobs.

The last one I got,was scored like all the other brands.

 

You've worked with me... there's no such thing as a SMALL clean up jobs.

Vance

 

Hate to sound big brother here, but...

I have personally been involved with Superfund sites and large scale remediation projects (read: solvent infested ground soil and water.)

Please do not dispose of your solvent in trash cans or in your driveway (and yes, I have done both, but think better of it now).

It takes only about one ounce of benzene, xylene, toluene or other even milder solvents like mineral spirits and vm&p naptha (basically the slow and fast version of One Shot reducers) to contaminate over 1.5 million gallons of drinking water.

We have a clean up site right now that used to be a burn site for old spray booth filters and other trash. The guys would throw some mineral spirits on the fire to get it going. It cost nearly 1 million dollars to clean the ground up good enough to use it for industrial ground again. It will never be clean enough to build a home on or dig a drinking water well near again.

I used to think that my spray guns cleaned out by spraying into the gravel in the drive outside would just evaporate away. The truth is that the solvent can and will work it's way into the ground and can still be there MANY years later. When we dug up some of the sites I have seen, as soon as you moved away enough dirt to get to the water table, the solvent was all still laying right there between the water and the dirt layers. The smell would knock you away like it was just poured there, yet it had been there for 30 plus years!

Sealing the solvent in a Pepsi container may be good enough temporarily, but not after the loader drives over it at the trash transfer station.

I don't mean to be an alarmist, but it is way better to let the container sit with the lid off and let the solvent evaporate if you are not going to use it. Then you can dispose of the dried up solids that are left.

And I second the motion to a steel drum or 5 gallon can for your rags. Spontaneous combustion is a grim reality, ESPECIALLY with the aforementioned solvents.

Be careful guys!

 

To clean panels before painting I use paint prep... Klean Strip Auto Prep removes grease/ finger prints, etc..

- Joe

 

Sorry about the 2 dollar bill! I'll see what i can do about Detroit. Can you believe i've never been to the show??

Thanks again for all the info. guys. Great stuff. The Neatsfoot oil indeed can be found at tack shops. I found it at the local hardware store called Farm and Home. It's basically a true-value franchised store but it's been around for over 40 years. It's used for treating saddles and cowboy boots, which we have a lot of here in nowheresville, OH. Seems to work nicely, it's a good thin liquid.

Hey Redlinetoys, you mean my "limestone filtration system" really isn't good? All joking aside, what's the best means of disposing it? i've just tossed it in the trash before. I reckon once a month in the summer we have a hazardous materials collection day at the local townhall. I got a chuckle when a few posts back someoe said "take it to your local hazardous collections site". We don't even have a post office in my town .


-ace

 

Yeah, we had a gravel drive near our shop when I was a kid. I used to spray cars a lot and always cleaned out my guns in the gravel (about 20 feet from the well head!!!). I really ***umed the solvent would just evaporate off, but it doesn't really work that way.

Keeping it in a pepsi bottle or whatever container is fine at a show, but I would let it evaporate off during a hot day by leaving the lid open outside. Still not environmentally friendly, but better than polluting the ground, especially your own property. If your neighbors are doing this, it can easily travel on top of the water table to your property even if YOU are doing it properly...

The best way would be to take it to a your haz material day.

Mineral Spirits and VM&P are essentially lighter fluid, so there are some other creative options as long as the stuff burns prior to going on your soil...

 

Hey safariknut... if you're still looking to find neatsfoot oil, I work at KMS Tools and we stock that stuff. http://www.kmstools.com/andrew-mack-fiebings-prime-neatsfoot-oil-compound-16-oz-6966

 

I've been using ATF for years, and my brushes seem just as good as new. The old timer that told me to use it for brush oil was in his 90's when he told me so I imagine he had been using it for quite a while.