Guys I’d like to have your opinions, and I’m sure you have them. I live in Longview Texas and several years ago, I attended the third HAMB Drags at MoKan and got the bug to build what was then being affectionately called a Hambster. Ryan later outlawed that designation and came up with HA/GR. Anyway, as Ricky Bobby said ”I want to go Fast”. When I got back I started researching an engine/ trans combination to team up with all the old parts I have that I could use, i.e. front axles, rearends, tanks etc. I rounded up 3-4 old slant six engines with two automatic transmissions, even though there was talk about going to manual only. Well, to make a long story short, I started riding my Harley a lot and put this on the back burner. Well, due to wife's health, the Harley is gone amd here I am, seven years later, with the bug to build and run. I am learning, in the years since 2005, that the HG/GR changed to manual trans only. Also, it seems the SDRA has formed up at Tulsa and is pretty active. So here’s the question, should I build to the SDRA standards or HG/GR? It seems that if I build to the SDRA rules, I would have several more opportunities to go run at Tulsa and other drag strips due to the NHRA designed cage. The only downside to using the SDRA rules is that if I run at the HAMB drags, I won’t be able to win the HG/GR trophy. Not a big deal to me, because, I don’t plan to spend the money to be that competitive. One more question. Aren’t there some nostalgia races in Texas? Around Temple? Would I be able to run a SDRA of HA/GR car there? Thanks in advance for your thoughts. By the way, I will post a build thread once I get my plans nailed down, but, it will probably be slower than some I’ve seen on here. Dang, don’t you guys have jobs? Kidding of course.
If you build it to meet NHRA's 10:00 second and slower Altered rules then you can run it anywhere. These cars are pretty much an Altered without a car body.
Hey MR. NO CENTS sounds like you want to build aHAMB car which ok with us SDRA guys.HAMB cars are welcome to run with us. SDRA rules can be found at TULSARACEWAYPARK.com under rules.a guy by the name of BOB VOLRIN in WILLS POINT TX is building acar he used to build chassis and is a old fuel altered guy he would be glad to vist with you .with his permission his number is 903 873 4383 .dont let fear and common sense stop you just jump in feet frist we need more cars HAMB and SDRA L JONES pres sdra
Howdy, You'll find that HA/GR & SDRA folks are merely two sides of the same coin. Both of us like the same concept, just differing racing philosophies. Not only do we each think the other's cool, we race together whenever we can get together. There're only two "trophies" that're exclusive to HA/GRs, and we still race together at both those meets anyway. Sounds to me (from your post) like you'll be happier with an SDRA car. It'd also be cheaper to get'er going, as you already have the slush pump, and they're capable of quicker times sooner in the build. Having at least one already building in the state's also a consideration. And we(HA/GR freaks)'ll only kid ya a little bit about not being able to handle a clutch & lever at the same time. Promise.
Thanks for the info on the guy at Wills Point. I think I saw a build thread started by a guy in Texarkana. Longview is essentially in the middle between these two towns. Both about an hour and a half away. Perhaps some of us NE Texas guys can get our stuff together and mosey up to Tulsa some time for a friendly race or two. Anywho, I'm still on the fence and would appreciate any advice. Three things that make the SDRA a little more attractive are the avialability of acceptable engines, trans choices, and the ability to put the engine behind the driver. On the other hand, the HG/GR is more nostalgic. Decisions, decisions. Oops and I just realized I should have been using HA/GR. Sorry Ryan.
You don't need to go SDRA to build a middie. Shifting & clutch linkages aren't all that complicated in an HA/GR.
No Cents, Build the driver cage area as bobw said, You will be able to run 10.00 - slower at any track. His build thread is a fine example of what it should look like. Both the HA/GR & SDRA cars are tons of fun to build and race. I have went with the SDRA car as it meets my racing style. You can see my build thread on this board. Build the car that you want, HA/GR, HA/GMR, SDRA, front motor or rear motor. If you want to go with a slant 6 with a stick in a rear motor HA/GR then old6rodder is the man to talk to, his runs real well.
No Cents, welcome to the insanity. Sounds like whatever you decide to go with in your build, you have the most important ingredient already. Lots of enthusiasm! As the others have said, regardless of the class you build for, the cage really needs to be built to a more modern configuration. HA/GR...SDRA, whatever makes you happy, these cars are a bundle of fun. Some of us tend to be rather passionate of building with true vintage parts and some lean towards later model stuff so parts are easier to find. The main concept is to build what you want to build, with the parts you choose and have as much fun as you can. Looking forward to seeing your ideas come together. The link to our build is in our signature lines. Feel free to steal any engineering that you find usable.
Welcome No Cents I'm building the SDRA rail, Miss Serendipity, in Texarkana. My decision, SDRA vs HA/GR was made for me when two inline sixes finally, finally, showed up on Craigslist. The integral-with-the-head one barrel intake on the smallblock, against the made-for-multiple-carbs lower plenum and Fenton-esque exhaust headers on the 300, was no contest. I watched the HA/GR cars go through tech at MOKAN, and it appeared no one cared wether the cage was 1 1/2, 1 5/8, or 1 3/4. Most tracks are NHRA, that's where we'll spend most of our time, so NHRA legal is the way I'm going. JD2 1 1/2 die was cheaper, so thats my size. North Star Dragway, in Denton, runs the nostalgia event "Texas Thaw" each spring. Thats my current target for a first event. I don't pretend to be any kind of expert, and I'm just muddlin through my build, but if you need any help or inspiration, give me a call or stop by.
Hey guys, mind a dumb question? I don't have a lot of hands on racing experience, just grew up in the woods of Arkansas reading Hot Rod Magazine and wanting to. I see a lot of the cars are not running radiators. How do you do this without overheating? Do you just limit the time the engine is running? I also see references to "filling the block". Is this some way of filling the water passages? What with? Bty, found a 3 speed manual from a 68 Baracuda. Think I'll nab it to keep my building options open. Thanks.
all the sdra cars run radiators ,some of them are laid down and look like they are running without a radiator. agood radiator to use is the ford festiva it is light has a fan with shroud. as for block rock i have never used it. but have seen it used ,with varying results great care must be taken not to get air bubbles as it will cause hot spots. for our kind of raceing i belive a radiator is best just my 2 cents
Ya No Cents, most of the HA/GR & SDRA cars run some type of radiator. With the right size and maybe a cooling fan you should be able drive the car to the staging lanes, make a pass and drive it back to the pits. Some guys only run water in the block and head, making a pass only then towing car back to the pits. Some guys pour fill the block for more piston bore support and run water in the top 1/4 of the block and the head. This is done more when you are over boring a motor past .060. I may build a 250 Chevy 6 and install 327 sbc 4" FT pistons and I will pour fill the block before boring. As both the HA/GR & SDRA cars must run pump gas or race gas, it is a lot easer to keep them cool with a radiator. The only good way to run a race motor with no cooling is to have it on alcohol. I hope this helps. No Dumb Questions, we all learn from what is asked.
I was kinda wondering how they did that myself. I have always run a radiator and alternator. It cuts down on the pit work. Old28 I agree with you alcohol is wonderful stuff. I started with injectors(Hilborn organ pipes built in 66 if thats retro enough) but changed over to a carb and love it. My buddy has threatened to put a small block in his Slowpar. I told him to go ahead I had the injectors and a spare small block chevy.
Not a build yet, but a treasure hunt. I love Craigslist. Running slant six with 3 speed $150, racing seat $40. Wonder if a nice car could be put together for $1500? BTY, is there a way to shorten the trans? It seems a bit long?
try putting the u joint directly to the rear end elimitate the drive shaft unless your real long legged
The man wants a middie. Yeah, shortening'em isn't a hard job ......... Remove the yoke and the tail housing, you'll see that the last bearing is only a bushing, and takes only a minor side load at most. It's not needed for a shortened box. Check the output shaft diameter up by the main box rear bearing to make sure you have enough meat there to cut new splines (some models were smaller there, and some were large enough from the factory, it depended on the aftermarket manufacturer). If not, the output shafts from all of that model 3 speed will interchange (the early "ball & trunion" shafts are all good, you'll be converting it to the later "slip joint" style), or you can have it built up enough. Make your measurements carefully, noting the amount of "slip" you want to retain in the slip joint. Remove the output shaft (& swap if wanted), cut to length, build up if necessary, have re-splined (any off-road shop can either do it or farm it out, but they'll need the slip collar {yoke} as well as the shaft to assure a good fit). Re-install the shaft. With the shortened shaft re-installed, cut the housing so that you can re-use both ends. The front is for the flanges (obviously) and part of the shell, including the air vent. You'll need to keep only the area at the back that holds the oil seal, not the bushing. You can reference the picture. Find a 1/4" soft aluminum plate, and lay it out & shape it to go between the pieces. If you're going short enough the back piece may need to "drop into" the plate, and be welded around the lip. This's what I did, and along with a small shortening of the spline collar it netted me a 14" over all removal. Weld the plate to the flange piece first, then install everything so you can locate and tack the back piece for the best seal fit. Then remove the assembly, and weld the back piece permanently (don't forget to remove the seal again before welding ). I habitually engineer in a bit of overkill, so welded from both the inside and the outside. Likely not really necessary, as the new housing serves only to keep oil in and to hold the rear seal. If you're concerned about the shaft being supported at both ends, it now works essentially the same as the original: The front of the input shaft is supported in the back of the crankshaft, the rear being supported by the front box bearing. The front of the output shaft is supported in the back of the input shaft, the rear being supported by the rear box bearing. The (now deleted) tail shaft bushing carried no gear side loading, only that of the drive shaft weight & angle loading. You'll have no driveshaft weight of course, and all angle loadings'll now be carried by the rear box bearing quite nicely. Also, if you build any kind of engine the 7 1/4" spiders won't hold up (and you can only get down to 4.10 gears for it). I finally went to a F*** 8", and 4.62 gears. It's 35 more pounds, but perfect gearing, and good spiders (and at least the extra weight's over the footprint ). Click here to visit the Barn Job's build thread. ps. PM me, or e-mail me at ds6@sbcglobal.net, a picture of your parts pile, or a sketch of what you're building, and a list of what you're shooting for. I'll add your info to our picture/info thread (click here).
Wow! great info on the trans shrinkage. I was eyeballing a Chevy 3 speed in a 60's truck the other day at the U pull it. It is roughly the length of the Mopar trans you shortened. And to answer the question above, I have a couple of Ford 8 inch rears from my old Mustang projects. I also have a S-10 ten bolt. I like the width of the ten bolt, but would need c-clip eliminators, gears, and a spool to use it. I think it would be cheaper to just regear and mini spool the 8 inch. Frame wise, I have an old Model A frame I thought about using, but am leaning more to the 1 1/2 x 3 rectangular tubing. BTY is 11 gauge thick enough or do I go with the extra beef (and weight) of the 3/16"? Hey Old6rodder, from your viewpoint now, what would you differently if you were starting from scratch on your HA/GR again? Is the mid location worth the extra work involved? Thanks everyone. I'll send pics of my parts pile this weekend. This is gonna be a hoot.
No sweat, you're welcome. I'd still go middie, and still start out with a stock engine to feel out the chassis. The first reason's that I'm hooked on'em from the postwar era, when they were tried repeatedly. The second's because NfHRA's wanting two layer suits and head socks (or horse collars, or skirted buckets) for the fronties, ala 10 sec altered rules. They don't care that we run far slower, burn only pump gas, and only have carbs. Because my mill & tank're all behind me I'm good with single layer & without the neck crap(so far ). So, cheaper investment in clothes, and a hell of alot easier sitting out an oil down, in the lanes, in the SoCal high desert, at mid-day. And lastly,............ have I mentioned that I'm hooked on'em.
Spit it all out old6, You like it even more with the "Tub" sitting on the rails. No Cents, That was a nice find in a motor, trans & seat, looking forward to more pictures.
I have to mention the only drawback I see to the middie. That's the less favorable weight transfer to the footprint. I sat myself upright, kept the wheelbase as short as I might, and angled my whole drivetrain up quite noticeably. All these serve to raise the c/m & c/g (and they're design features consistent with the postwar era middies). They do counter the problem well on the line, but it could still use a bit more, as top end traction's where it hits my car. I tend to light'em up if the hides aren't right on the pressure for a given strip & temp. I've helped it some more by moving as much of the non-cuttable weight as far back as I could. The radiator, battery, gas tank, fuel pump ..... all of'em are now over the rear end. Even the addition of the tub was done in that vein. I added a wing once but took it off after one meet. It helped, but even though made of wood, it didn't look postwar at all. Les built his middie taller in the saddle from the start, and it works OK on the line even though he mounted his drivetrain horizontal. He still had to add a wing (not very cool for a period look) to help on the top end.
The Jalopy Journal
