I just spent a very frustrating 3 1/2 hrs installing a Crane Cams XR-i to get a GM car that ran really well to a car that won't even try to start ! On the trouble shooting page of the manual is says to pull the coil wire out of the cap and test a spark plug, it has great spark. It said if you had spark the problem was the secondary side,rotor,plugs,wires and timing. Now the distibutor is back in exactly where it came out (I'm sure) and of course the car ran great before so none of the other stuff would be at fault. It says if no spark to test the module by placing a test light between coil- and a ground, crank engine and see if the light flashes on and off. Now when I did this the light pulsated so fast it really didn't have time to even go out. There is no gap recomendation when installing the unit against the points lobe off the shaft, it says to get it as close as you can without letting it touch. Is it posible that the unit is to close and picking up the whole shaft instead of just the lobes ? Would that cause the test light to not flash on and off versus the pulsating light it's showing ? I'll try and upload the link to the pdf file instructions, that didn't work, it's the 9th one down on this link http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=XR-i+manual&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=
when I went from points to pertronics my car wouldn't start after. so I poked around with my meter and found I had a bad push button for my starter. key on, push the starter button type rather than just a key switch. original 49 chevy stuff. had 12.5 volts going in but like 11 coming out when I pushed the button. guess there was enough juice to start with points but not with electronic. so maybe something you didn't touch is not meeting the demands of your new system.
I rotated the crank until the rotor pointed directly towards the firewall, marked it and the distributor shaft as well as where the vaccume module was pointing. It dropped right back in all lined up, it's a 350 chevy, had the dist. rebuilt last year and run on a machine to set it up. Like I said it ran great but I thought I might get a hotter spark with this module, that's why I was screwing with it. I even fired the car before this to make sure it would start easy after the install, it's getting fuel. The thing isn't even trying to start, rotated the dist. about a quarter turn each way and nothing. I could see if it was off and trying to start but it's just turning over to beat the dickens and that's all it's doing.
I got the jumper wire off the starter "S" terminal up to the coil to give the 12 volts on start up. My volt meter showed 13.5 at the coil with the starter engaged.
With this car (my avatar) you can reach over the windsheild and use the key while standing by the motor. When I put a plug in the coil wire end it was a great looking spark but didn't watch it long enough to see if it was pulsating, just seeing if it had spark. The cap was all the way down when I took it back off to try and look at how close that module was to the lobe.
Who the heck said that ? After I put the little guy on the bus I went back at it and got it running. I first pulled the number one wire and put an old plug in it to see if it was getting spark. It was throwing a great spark so back to the timing is not on. I brought the motor back up to tdc and the rotor sure looked like it was pointing at number one. I pulled the distributor out rotated the oil pump shaft a hair and dropped it back in. Hit the key and the damn thing fired right up, timed it and went for a test drive. I don't know why it wasn't trying to start before, I was rotating the distributor about a 1/4 turn to get it to catch. Honestly I didn't see much of a difference from the points but they were setup by Carmen Faso on his machine and went to 7200 before float. At least I got a rev limiter and no chance of point failure now, so we'll chock this one up to a mystery for the time being.
I'm having a problem with my points eliminator system too. It's on a Ford 390, and I'm using the Accel 2020 points eliminator with stock distributor and stock coil. I took the distributor out with the motor on TDC, replaced the points per instructions, then dropped it back in with the distributor housing approximately where it had been when I pulled it out. When I start it, I can see by the timing light that it's darn close to what it should be (6 degrees), but it only runs for about two seconds before just stuttering to a halt. I'm running it on ether, but with it running, ether doesn't seem to keep it going. I can see through the upper filter that gas is getting to the carb, and I can see it shoot into the carb when I turn the throttle. Spark is obviously getting to the plugs, as for the time that it's running the timing light is doing its thing very regularly. It starts, runs for a moment, then dies regardless of how much advance I give it or what I try and fuel it with down the carb. One of my friends thinks that it might have a low-power spark that's getting washed out by gas once the initial shot of ether wears out. Very frustrating!
I'll give you 50 bucks to get your old distributor out of my garage ! The problems you were having with it (XR-i) made me leary to even try using it, at least it works and not popping like it was on yours.
I told Dooley on the phone that if I knew ahead of time I wouldn't have switched. A propery setup points system is a great thing, I honestly think the car doesn't start as well with this conversion. Before I would just crack the throttle and BOOM it'd fire right off, now it's a rrrr....rrrr then fires. I'm sure if someone had a points setup that wasn't dialed in then they'd see a difference.
On some of the S/S systems, you need to reset the plugs a little wider, or as per there specs. Ice man
It amazes me that peoples problems start once they get rid of points, and the cars ran when they had points on them.
Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have several cars running on that exact system......though someone recently told me that it was foolish to run points in this day and age.....................
Got one right out in the garage and a complete MSD setup (dist.,coil and 6AL) in the 41. The problem with this car was that there is not a place to put the box under the dash or inside firewall, believe me I tried 3 different times before going this route. It wouldn't fit and as far as out on the road I got the old points/condenser in a zip lock behind the seat.
I put a Pertronics unit in my 85 Bronco 300 ci six that is now retro. to about 1968. Checked that I had 12V. to coil and it started up, I would use one again.
I tried to put some of that in my 29 with a 302 and no luck sent them back and put the old points back in and no problems so stick with points just my $0.02
LOL,, I have never had much trouble getting engines running after messing with distributors, till I put a Mallory Unilite distributor into my 55 Lincoln LYB.... Damn thing messed with me for a couple of hours.... Of course Mallory does not make a distributor for a LYB, but here on the HAMB I learned that a Distributor for a Ford Y block would work,, and it fit like a glove, perfect fit... Only problem is that the LYB cam has 15 teeth on the dist gear, the Ford Y block distributor has 14.... The car would fire, backfire, pop in the exhaust, fire again, over, and over, and over.... When I was reading about the distributor swap, I "missed" or conveniently forgot the part about swapping out the gears... It was a bitch to time before I swapped the gears... Once I changed the gear, it popped right off...
Clearances in the stock point type distributor must be reduced to the minimum. Stock GM distributors are notoriously slopply because a point type distributor does not need precise clearances. In 1996, I installed a Pertronix conversion in my 1963 Pontiac distributor and I have never regretted doing so. It was also the early version of the Pertronix kit. I took the distributor out and disassembled, cleaned it and replaced any worn parts. I chucked the distributor in a vise and spun the shaft to check how much wobble was in the weight base/shaft. As usual, there was considerable wobble. The wobble must be eliminated or reduced to a minimum of .010" to use a Pertronix kit because it will make the clearance vary as the reluctor wheel spins which will effect coil saturation time and timing accuracy. You can elimnate the wobble by tapping the weight base lightly with a small hammer as you turn the distributor shaft while the distributor housing is being held in a vise. You must also remov the distributor gear and shim the thrust clearance between the gear and the housing to .015" to .020". You can buy hardened shims for GM, Accel, Mallory or most any aftermarket automotive ignition system manufactuers. Discard the resistance wire to the Pertronix high winding ratio coil and run the coil on 12V. I used a AC Delco D-514 transistor ignition coil because Pertronix did not have a coil in 1996. The AC Delco D-514 (GM-1115207) transitor ignition coils were discontinued about 1998 but I think the Corvette restorers have those reproduced under a GM license. The voltage draw in the TI coils will be so high that it can burn up a resistance wire or a ballast resistor. Don't use any kind of resistor or steel resistance wire between the ignition switch and the coil primary (+) side. A plain 14 AWG stranded copper wire is OK to use from the ignition start and run position to the TI coil. If you have points, full 12V applied to the primary (+) side of the coil would over heat up a points type coil, and burn up the points in 50 miles.If you use a resistor wire with a TI (high winding ratio) coil, you risk buring up your wiring harness and then the whole car. Don't bother to use a Mallory Unilite distributor or a Unilite conversion. They must have a resistor between the ignition switch (battery) and the coil primary (+) because if higher secondary voltage is applied to the Unilite infra-red bulb even when in starting the engine, it will burn the bulb out in an instant. What is the purpose in eliminating the points and up-grading an ignition system to modern electronic switching if you cannot utilize full battery voltage applied to the coil primary (+) ? Higher primary voltage will deliver higher secondary voltage (-) to the electronic switching module and ultimately to the spark plugs if the spark plug wires are up to the task. Points cannot withstand higher secondary voltage without premature failure. When I was a kid, I would remove the ballast resistor and install a 12 AWG copper wire from the ignition switch to the coil primary (+) and get a better ignition performance but I would have to change points every other day. I also had to replace the original epoxy filled coil with a aftermarket high performance oil filled coil to prevent the coil from overheating and breaking down (losing output voltage) .
I like points. Easily serviced in the field as well as trouble shooting without instruments is easy. I plan to start the 31's engine using a single points rebuilt GM (Non HEI) distributor. And probably go to dual points later. Along with an MSD6AL down the line. Points generally last 10,000 - 15,000 miles between tune-ups if you make a point (no pun intended) to get quality points with a fiber rubbing block and use silicon grease made for points ignitions. (A little tube of that will last you a lifetime and it's a lot better than the grease that comes with points.) Most guys don't drive their hot rods all that much. I feel like I drive my 32 a lot, but it only averages a little 3000 miles per year. So that works out to three years or more before the points need service. And if you're like most of us, you'll be checking and setting them every now and then. One unrecognized advantage with dual points - besides the performance gain with high winding engines is; if you have a failure of one set of points, breakage etc., you can pull the other set and get home with no probs. I ran into this with a ChryCo a few weeks back and wrote it up in a post called "Here's one for your bag of tricks." Go here: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=358435
Ha ha, I read the thread title and wondered who couldn't spell, must have been in a hurry typing that one. Oh yeah, the Crane still works great.
Electronic ignition modules have higher impedance than points systems. When I put a pertronix unit on my 270 GMC (still running 6 volts) . . . I switched to a 0.4 Ohm 40,000 Volt coil. Works like a champ, starts with a quick stomp and 14,000 miles and haven't had to adjust the points once. I wont go back to points.
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