Technical Pontiac 389 questions

Working on sorting out a customers 1936 Ford that he put in a 389 Pontiac. The block itself is a 63-67 GTO Block but the front timing cover and 4 bolt water pump is 61-62 Bonneville. No power steering, no AC. With the current pulleys, the crank and water pump line up okay, but the alternator pulley is a mile off from lining up. Trying to research online has turned into a nightmare of a ton of pulleys but no real specs. Anyone help shed some light on what years of pulleys I need or do I have to get the alternator bracket that mounts to the passenger side? Also has the Edelbrock Dual quad intake so even the arm for the alternator has no place to mount like the later 8 bolt ones.

thanks

 

Don’t know Pontiacs to well. So what do you think about this?https://www.ebay.com/itm/1959284467...XGl041VNcYdIa9ZAhkFDHviNeRLF9dM5RTjDwFcpMN7xU

 

Is it possible alternator needs to be on the passenger side do to early pump and pulley set up?

 

That is my exact thought Johnny. Maybe someone else can confirm. Sadly the old boy passed away before we could help him finish it and there has been ton of small stuff like this. He did his best before he got sick. He’s had the car since the 60s. Now we are building it as a memorial for him.

 

@flamedabone

 

Well, it looks like you have three deuces and a 389, I suppose all you need now is a four speed. He he.

 

It is actually a Dual Quad Setup.

 

https://www.gtoforum.com/threads/timing-chain-cover-tri-power.143759/

 

Needs to come forward correct? If not going for accuracy why not space that mount with a spacer of same footprint? Then use an old school style adjuster.

 

Got a picture from the side inline with the pulleys? Looks like the alternator will not clear the cylinder head if it's moved back to mate up with the crank and water pump pulleys.

 

This is on my 67 GTO. I have two upper brackets. One bolts to the water pump and the other one bolts to the thermostat housing. When you swing yours over toward the motor does it clear the valve cover and are the connections on the back accessible?

 

As a guy who has put an ass load of Pontiac engines in old Fords, my advice is to dig into your pile of water pump pulleys and come up with something that lines up. You might have to stick some shims behind it or redrill the bolt pattern or whatever it takes.

Once you have the crank and water pump figured out, make whatever brackets you have to make to put the alternator where it needs to be then consider yourself lucky. The odds of finding a matching set of pulleys is pretty slim unless you have a stock engine with all the original accessories in the original spot. Even then, that will mount the alternator up high where it sticks out like a turd in a punch bowl.

Pontiacs are not as bad as small block Fords on pulleys, but they are pretty stupid.

Good luck, -Abone.

 

It does indeed look like a '62 timing cover and pulleys. I made my own bracket to use the early pulleys, easier that finding old Pontiac parts. This engine is a '59 but all of the critical mounting points are the same as '62 just no water elbows on the heads.

 

My '69 has power steering but the alternator bracket on your engine looks similar. My alternator mounts to the top bolt on the bracket and yes, it is very close to the valve cover.
I also have a water pump pully with only one groove. They are available new from Ames. Interestingly enough the street roddy billet pully is cheaper than the original style steel ones.
What is the story behind the header collector? I have never seen one like that.

 

@Johnny Gee Alternator is about a pulley width too far forward to the front groove. So pulleys or move alternator.

@saltflats it just barely clears the head. And do I mean barely.

@fyrffytr1 it just barely clears but with the Dual Quad and the 4 bolt water pump even that bracket has no where to bolt.

@bchctybob that’s a nice setup. Probably what we will have to do.

@flamedabone thanks. Have to do some scouting and scouring. See if the Widow has any parts from the motors original build.

@‘51 Norm. Story is they are a salt flat design of years past. The entire cover on the collector comes off and basically gives you zoomies. Pipes will run under the running boards and come out ahead of the tires. Not ideal but the cross member kit he replaced the factory X Member only allows 1 1-2” pipe and its a tight fit over the rear end and under the tank. So front dump it is.


This is being built as a 50-60s hot rod. No heater, no radio, it will have wipers that’s about it. Black on black steelies with poverty hub caps and pie crust cheater slicks on back. Sadly I’ve just had so much rework on it to make things safe and proper that we ran out of time as the owners health faded faster than we could get it done.

 

All Steel 36 3 window. I assume the fenders are Murray Built as they all have big Ms stamped in the bolt lips.

that’s the big problem I spend all day doing others builds and I do have fun. But I run out of steam and ideas for my own. But hey I get to test drive and torture test them all from low dollar builds to 1/4 mil and more cars. Lol. Never did I ever dream id actually be building cars like this for a living. (See my posts about my personal 54 GMC nightmare)

 

There's early and late 389s, there's another series that's 421/428, then the 326, 350, 400, 455 version. Not many of the front engine dress interchanges with the other. Hope you got good batteries for the rabbit hole.

 

Block is a 65, heads are the same front timing cover is 61 water pump no date code on it but is a GM reman.

 

Early 63 , 1st alternator year . Right hand mount, as in the Ebay piece above.

 

Thanks. Seller just offered me for $50 less so I’m waiting on customer approval.

 

If you have a lathe, you can cut the center out of a pulley and carefully weld the belt portion to the front of your top pulley to make a three groove pulley, then run a small belt to the alternator. It's not the best way but it would let you use the parts you have. Depending on your amp load, one of the small tractor type alternators may be an option.

 

Are you referring to the one I posted? I just flipped the pic, isn’t it driver left? It does appear thinner between head to alternator pivot???

 

a little off subject, is this going to be a hiboy?

 

These are the only 3 living at my house at the moment and none have factory alternator mounts.



-Abone.

 

@RMcCulley full fendered. A highboy 3 window would be pretty cool.

@flamedabone thanks gives me some ideas.

@Johnny Gee yep. Soon as I watched it on EBay he sent me a $40 discount offer. Sadly “it’s ugly” came thru so looking at @flamedabone’s ideas.

 

Mine are ugly too, but I'm sure you can improve on my ideas aesthetically and do a bit cleaner job. Stupid Pontiacs, I hate 'em.

-Abone.

 

Here’s what I’m seeing,,
It’s supposed to mount on other head with that year water pump
passenger side head is 1-1/2 ish forward of the driver’s side.
That’s if you’re using factory brackets and such.

FSM info

 

@31Vicky with a hemi thank you. That’s the data I was after! Looks like im building another custom bracket like above.

 

Man, that ain't nice.....