I may have screwed up and posted twice, but I Wanna know!! Like I may or may not have said, i'm having a little top end trouble with my 1961 Bonneville. I am considering Edelbrock heads, and i need to know a few things; First, their listing is for 1965 and newer. Will they work on a 1961 Block?? Second, Iwant to run a Pontiac tripower. Is it compatible with Edelbrock heads. Third, Does the Tripower setup require a different Cam? Car is a factory 4 Barrel?? I'll be researching alla this myself, but it's Saturday, Edelbrock's Closed, and besides, Hambers have smarter answers Thanks
not sure about the head bolt pattern on the 64 & below, everything I have is 65 & newer. You'll need a 65 & newer Tripower to work with the Edelbrock heads though.
I have a couple questions for ya... #1-what heads are on the car now? (should have a number cast into the exhaust ports.) #2- What is on the car for exhaust? #3- do You already have a tri power manifold? If Yes, do You have pics? #4-how serious are You trying to get with this motor?
I dont claim to be a Pontiac Genius but I do know that the earlier motors like yours used a pressurized oil p***age to oil the rockers. Later they switched to the oil threw the lifter - pushrod - little hole in tip of rocker, style.
Yeah- but that's an easy fix- You just plug the holes and change Lifters and pushrods- Rockers, too. My major concern is actually the timing chain cover- Early poncho and later are different- they can be changed, but by the time You actually do it, it was probably alot easier to Yank motor a and install motor B.
Lux is right on.... The E heads will bolt on to the 60 block. but you will need 65-66 Tripower intake or need to modify the the early intake to fit. Draggin GTO on the board here has done this to a 2x4 bathtub intake. and also the Timing chain cover waterpump will need to be changed as well and all the pullies will get messed up. If its not the EXACT direction you want to take it is easier to scource a newer 389, 400, 421, 428 or 455 and drop that in there. hope that helps Edit: oh yeah the stock cam will still work but Why? your changing every thing else??
The benefits of a later block would be. 1 standard BOP bolt pattern ( more trans choices) 2 more CID 3 possible 4 bolt mains 4 still looks basically the same as the older motor. Edelbrock heads will require 65 or 66 tripower (66 is 3 big carbs)
1) Yes, they'll bolt to a 1961 block, or any other Pontiac block for that matter. Since the '61 engines oil the rockers thru the studs, you'll need to plug the oil p***age in the block deck and run hollow pushrods of the proper length. The '66 and older engines (some '67) used shorter pushrods than the '67 and later engines due to a valve angle change in the heads that year. 2) Yes, as long as it's either a '65 or '66 Tri-Power. The earlier ones won't match the '65 and later intake bolt pattern/water crossover design the E-heads have. 3) A lot of the Tri-Power engines used the same cams as their 4-barrel brethren. However you'll probably want to step up to a decent cam to take advantage of the greatly enhanced airflow of the E-heads. Keep in mind that the E-heads have a round-port exhaust configuation. Only a few rare Ram Air and Super Duty iron Pontiac factory heads used the round-port exhaust. Most every Pontiac out there has a 'D-port' exhaust configuation, named that way because the two center ports are shaped like two of the letter 'D' laying back to back. The E-heads don't have a perfectly round port shape like Pontiac cast iron round-port heads have. The E-heads have a flat exhaust port floor which might confuse those who are not familiar with Pontiac heads, it sorta looks like a 'D' that's laying on it's back. It's NOT a D-port head configuration. What does all this mean to you? It means you'll need round-port headers or exhaust manifolds to run the E-heads, your D-port stuff won't work. You'll be looking at spending a LOT of $$ and changing a lot of things to run the E-heads. There are better choices out there, but to keep things simple you're better off finding a good set of early heads (61' or '62) so you don't have to change anything from stock.
Forgot about the round port thing (good call GTO) If im not mistaken dont the firebird cast iron headers fit the big car?
The '67 -'69 first-gen Firebird long-branch manifolds will work on '65 -'69 big Ponchos, but I'm not sure if they'll fit the earlier ch***is.
They will fit. I had them on The wagon (63) H.R.H. has them on his 60. Ram Air enterprises makes them woth both port configurations as well...They also have the early dual outlet super duty manifolds (which are about the coolest looking manifolds ever built.) r.a.r.e. makes SCADS of stuff these days...a veritable Plethora of groovy *****rack stuff......
Yeah....But You can buy a pair of Edelbrocks for the price of 1 kauffman head. I doubt he's trying to do wheelstands.
I don't know why you'd put money into a '61 block except for a restoration, because once you blow out the dual-coupling hydramatic it's going to be a ******* to find another trans. They're pretty tough, they'll hold out fine for casual/average driving, but if you were doing that you wouldn't need to do all this work to the motor. Early 1964 and older blocks do not have a provision to mount the starter on the block, they bolt through the trans bellhousing, that's why you can't bolt a BOP pattern trans up to one without an adapter. On the other hand, 1965-1970 blocks have the mounts in the exact same place. After 1970 blocks had two mount provisions, some are drilled and tapped for just one, some for both, because they had to change the mounting a bit for the Firebirds. But the vast majority of 1965-up motors will bolt right into the '61 ch***is, you may need to adapt or make a trans crossmember as the only modification needed. The block itself is virtually invisible once it's fully dressed, only with a really close inspection is anyone going to be able to tell it's not a '61 block. You can swap out the front covers to the earlier motors - they bolt right on - but may give you some issues with the balancer and seal. Again more problems to sort out. Last but not least, they made tri-powers starting in 1957. A 1961-1964 setup will bolt right on your existing heads. And the older ones tend to be cheaper if you don't worry about the air cleaner, because they don't fit 1965-up heads. Personally, having driven a bone stock early 389 with a dual-coupling Hydramatic, I can't even imagine not being perfectly happy with it out of the box; mine had just a 2-bbl on it and would run like a ****d ape.
I'll second that it's a good transmission. The low slip rate means you'll get better MPG with it. The only real issue with them is very few people can rebuild one anymore.
FORGET IT! My head porter says the Edelbrocks for Pontiacs are HUGE, and wouldn't even recommend them for my low 12 second 421. So, for your application they'd be very "soggy" at the lower, street RPM's. It'd be a pretty expensive disappointment.
? they're nearly identical to good 'ol Ram air IV heads...I have installed about 4 sets and never saw anything but improvement. They flat out shriek on a pretty close to stock 400...I can't Imagine they wouldn't kill on a 421.
They're BIGGER. It's all up for debate for sure. But, if you'd like another opinion, those heads will sure be a waste under a dinosaur tripower setup also. I would never consider his projected combo to be anything but a waste of money. Plus, the slight thought of a stock or near stock cam feeding those heads? Man, what a poorly matched combo. PS-I better throw in a smilie before I get misunderstood
It's true the E-heads are based on the '69 -'70 RAIV 400 heads. But the E-heads have a much better intake port, 270+ cfm for the 87cc version and 280+ for the 72cc head. The RAIV is a 240 cfm head. A Tri-Power can be made to run well with the E-heads, the intake and carbs can be modified to flow pretty well. One of the guys on the Performance Years forums is running bottom 10s with a '65 intake that been m***aged, I think he's swapping it for an aluminum repop that will also be worked. I agree 100% with Groucho, waaay too much head for a near-stock street 1960 389 in a heavy big Pontiac. A lot of money to spend for little performance gain if any. Now if that 389 was in a lighter GTO or Tempest that was cammed and geared right to really use those heads...... My 72cc E-heads (box-stock) are going on a street 406 with a tunnel ram along with a 3500 converter and 3.89 gears, in a 3600# '64 GTO.
True. I have not run these under a tri power. and My idea of a "Mild" cam...well, You get the picture. But I still think they would kick *** on Your 421.
Hey! Check with guys @ AMES Performance. Very knowledgeable on everything Pontiac. If you do try to contact them try to speak with Kevin very, very sharp!
If it was mine I would rebuild the top end and find a period correct tri-power for your 389 IMO. A guy can really get carried away with all the aftermarket stuff for Pontiacs nowadays. For a dependable cruiser this would be all you need.
If you want to make a Poncho haul *** call this cat at TFX CAMS.Philipsburg NJ. This cat has the **** and knows his stuff>>>>.
I've had good luck with a set of 6x heads, low compression to run pump gas. SD perf did the work, call Dave or email.
6X's mean an intake swap too. If the short block has never been rebuilt, the valves may hit the pistons. The pistons I put in the 389 I did .030 over had two sets of reliefs in them so they'd work with 64-older and 65-up motors. Of course, if you sonic check the block and it's good you can go .055 and use stock bore 400 pistons and solve the problem that way, too. But again, I wouldn't suggest dumping the money into an early block unless it has to look period correct.
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