'30 Model A Tudor Banger that I'm mocking up to get the rake and set up split wishbones for caster. I bought a Posies Super Slider Reverse Eye and I'm wondering if I can take out some leaves. 1. to lower a little more. 2. improve ride. Stock- 10 leaves .265 thick Posies- 8 leaves .256 thick That being said, what I'm leaving off; Rear bumper 40 lbs Rear fenders 26 lbs Running boards [1/2 weight] 10 lbs Spare tire 42 lbs Carrier 6 lbs. So about 125 lbs. Likelihood of rear seat p***engers? Near Zero. If it looks like 1 or 2 leaves could come out, Which ones? I was thinking maybe the 2 shortest ones at the top but that's just a guess on my part. Thanks, robj
Its guesswork. An 8 leaf spring was a roadster spring. Heavier cars and pickups had 10. The minimum they ever used was 7.
At least for parallel springs these are for support and removing them will affect your ride negatively. I guess you might get a little lower by taking them out but not much. Removing the longer springs is the correct way to lower your car. How their removal would affect a mono leaf I don’t know so someone more knowledgeable will need to answer.
"Generally, the longer the spring that is removed, the softer the ride and less support so car goes lower." That's sort of what I was wondering. I was thinking the top 2 shorter ones just for the thickness of the leaves. and maybe one of the longer leaves to soften the ride and get a bit lower. As it is, the only lowering I have going on in the rear are the reverse eyes. Sorry, I forgot to state it's a Tudor. Also, I just realized the main leaf on the Posies is noticeably thicker at .335 while all the other leaves are .256 robj
I have to ask why your wanting to do this. Looks like a project in progress so presumably you have no info as to height and ride in use? If it's of any use, I have a 32 3w coupe, no fenders or bumpers, which has a similar spring which, once settled, sat a little low so was spacered up about 1/2", and rides great. You can get / make transverse spring mounts with multiple mounting heights. Not the tidiest of things but must be great to dial in a ride height. Chris
You're right, it's spring over axle, not behind. Silly me ha! But I'd suggest that the basic considerations remain valid. Chris
As I said, I am in the mocking up stage. ['30 fender-less Tudor] I have done my calculations as to what I "should" end up with with the modifications I've made, tires, etc.. but as to if they will accurate, that's why I'm mocking up. I was looking for some input as to what others have done with the Posies rear spring before adding the engine and the body. I was hoping to get a little bit close the first time. robj
When I was at this point I called Posie. They told me do not remove a long leaf. They said the ends of the long leaves are supported by the leaf above. Remove this and the unsupported leaf will bend.You canlook at a spring pack and see where you could remove a leaf and not lose support. John
@tricyclerob Weight on rear of Model A sedan Four wheel scale With Rear seat & interior. Is right @ 650-680 pounds combined L & R . 32 sedan about 740
Personally, I’d leave them all in until you are driving the thing. Then you will have real world experience, and can modify from there. The only way to make an A a lot lower is by stepping the frame and reversing the eyes. You can only flatten a spring just so much. Then things start hitting each other.
Thanks Caddie, I appreciate your input despite the fact that it sorta feels like you're yelling at me. At 74 I've built quite a few cars but never a hot rod and I'm trying to gain as much correct information as I can. This is all quite new to me and there is a lot of information out there that seems somewhat contradictory. I've seen more people that I can count talk about removing leaves, hence the question. I'm not convinced "playing with springs to improve the ride [and height] is futile" as if that was the case why do so many people do it? My calculations are based on the advertised results with the parts I'm using. I understand that's what can best be considered a rough estimate until the car is fully mocked up which is what I'm in the process of doing. I've not yet split the wishbones but it can be necessary if using headers on the 4 banger. I'm trying to figure out a way around that. I have a set of Reds Headers but I recently saw a car with different headers and an unspilt wishbone. I think they might be Millworks but haven't confirmed that. I would rather not split the wishbones but at the same time I don't think it's the end of the world. But I do appreciate your suggestions, thanks, robj
@tricyclerob I would try to set frame up @ what ride height & rake . Try to get a vision with tire/ rims if you have & want to set . This way you can see what the caster , If you do not want to split bones You can pie cut weld or slip joint bones To get rear mount to set in socket correct. Depends on how much caster , you might need to use wedge in between Front spring pack & front crossmember So no twist /bind. When I have set up I have done few ways for mock up just used the main springs , then after done hade to add springs to adjust for car weight & settling , On my A I ran 1-1/2 between rear axle tube & rear crossmember rear body mount . When I did the 32 F-H closed drive shaft. I used the Posi spring pack , on rear I had spring out several times I end up with the Original 32 main or Vice verse & mix match of Posi & stock leafs , it was Pain A$$ , I mad a spring spreader tool pipe nut & bolt to spread . The 32 had so much of rake the oil would run back down to trans from rear /close drive shaft , that I ran a 1/2 nylon dot hose to rear so it would balance out oil level . The Header , can you use a Tight radius Fabrication doughnut to clear what ever
@tricyclerob Build the way you want ,others will give input if they can relate I really do not know why the Issue with 1946 caddy , but there alot I miss or understand , Most do not have my personal Decoder to read my cryptic thinking . Me , few here can Verify My cheap built all steel A with fenders Looked like traditional no $ body on purpose, No chop stock A frame stock interior , stock seats moved back 3 inch , cowl tank 3:43 gears s-10 rear 29 tall 7 inch wide foot print on Bridgestone No Jungle gym (Cage or bar) 100-107 1/8 shift point's 6,000 rpms 81 cid bigger then 327. My other 32 if I go from My tight Torque converter To 4,700 ish , change the L60's to my other mounted 315's & change pulley I need to change the caster, shock setting & 4 link adjustments
Caddy, I'm learning as I go and doing my best to do things right. I'm asking a lot of questions and weighing the responses as to what seems to make sense. Some things I asked at the start in hindsight probably seem pretty dumb to someone with experience, but this is how one learns. robj P.S. I have read in more than one place that headers on a banger can require splitting the wishbones. I came to that conclusion after a bit of measuring but I will doublecheck that. I did note that the headers Gear Drive sells specifically state they fit with the stock wishbones.
You're absolutely correct, 50 years of experience gives me no knowledge of building clown cars. Carry on.
Caddy, I see some post editing has taken place and in consideration I did the same. I apologize if I misinterpreted the tone of some of your statements. That's the problem with online communication. I'm guessing neither of us would have taken any offense if we were face to face in the shop having a beer. As for splitting the wishbones, it is and was the very last thing I wanted to do. It would have created all sorts of other issues with the steering arms, the drag link as well as the pitman arm, but at the same time I was really jonesin to use the headers. [Not to mention messing with Henrys original design and creating axle stresses where there shouldn't be.] As to the headers. I am not 100% positive they are "Reds". I bought them "used" but never run. They did not have the tag I usually see on Reds as the guy had them Jet-Hot coated and I'm ***uming he removed the tag for that. But they look just like his. Making measurements using the rear motor mount flange as a reference, the front of the forward most tube is 14" and the lowest part is 9", [using a level from the top of the motor mount]. When I take the same measurement to my mocked up flywheel housing, [again with a level] from the level to the top of the wishbone is 9" + or -. This is with a clamp on the spring and the axle compressing it 1". I can't see how there wouldn't be interference especially with weight added. [Note; this shot was with a clamp on the spring and axle compressing the spring 1"] Obviously I don't have the Gear Drive header in hand but looking at their photos [in relation to various parts on the engine] Their first point of interference is at 12.5", [1.5" further back] and 1.5" higher. Both would give much better clearance as the wishbone rises less the further to the rear you go. it also looks like they hug the block a little tighter but there aren't any photos with clear enough shots to figure out measurements. One noticeable difference is the collector for the Gear Drive is much further back, [past the motor mount] where the header I have it's right at the motor mount. And the Gear Drive does specifically state it fits with stock wishbones. I won't know for sure as I don't have the Gear Drive in hand but I will soon as I ordered a set. Anyway, I would like it if you would continue to comment on what the heck I'm doing. But please know, I'm not approaching things willy-nilly and I do a ton of research here, on Ford Barn and well as other sites. Plus books on the subject. And, I'm trying my best. Thanks, robj
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