Technical Problem with new lifters.

What cause lifters to be very slow to pump oil to rockers on cold start?

I have s 350 CSB with 305 heads. Last summer it developed a bad lifter knock on no1 exhaust. To make a long story short I ended up changing the lifters, pushrods and rockers. Did that a few weeks ago.

Now I instead have problems with really bad lifter knock and tick on cold start. Started it up without valve covers and not a single rocker gets any oil for about a minute. Then the first miniscule drop of oil to reach the hole in the rockers. Then up to 5 minutes before it flows normal. During that time it knocks and makes really bad sounds from the lifters. The oil start to come from the back lifters and then one by one starts to get oil until it reaches the front.
When the engine is warmed up its silent and runs very smooth.

I have just removed the oil filter and the adapter plate - all is ok. The oil channels look very clean ad far as I can see.

I have zero lash and 1/4 preload
New Elgin lifters
Lucas 10w40 oil
Ac Delco oilfilter (new one will be a Baldwin)
Oil preassure about 75 psi cold idle 35 psi warm idle
No misfires and run strong and smooth when warm. The coldstarts are a real nightmare though.

Im down a rabbit hole chasing this oil flow problem.

 

Too much preload can easily cause this situation. Try starting the engine and slowly back off the preload on one rocker, and see if it starts to flow better. If it does then readjust all lifters, and don't put more than 1/4 turn of preload on them. Should allow a lot more flow, and hopefully you haven't damaged anything with restricted flow yet. Will also increase performance a noticeable amount with less preload.

 

Ive adjusted them three times. First time I did it with engine off. Zero lash and 1/4 turn. Made som noise on first start up wich I believed to be normal. However it continued to make noise on the next few cold starts. So I adjusted them with engine running. Took them to 1/2 turn. Still made noise and lack of oil. So I backed them off and set them at 1/4 again. Still knocking lifters and dont get normal oil flow until engine is warmed up.

If I remember it correctly when I checked them last year they was set to 1 or 1 1/4 turns by a previous owner.

If I understand you correctly I should test and set one of them cold with engine running to see if the oil starts comming through the rocker? (When warm all rockers have oil flow so I cant test it.)

 

Can you put your oil pressure sender someplace really high up by the heads? I wonder if you will see 75psi at the rockers on those cold starts.
Maybe try running the cold engine for only 10 seconds, shutting down, and pull one or more of the push rods to see if the lower ends are wet or dry. (?)

 

What did the cam & bottoms of the old lifters look like , how much oil pressure are you carrying .?

 

Where did the block come from? Could it be that someone had oil restrictors in the lifter galley before you got it and eventually caused the first problem and the current problem?
Bill

 

Its located just by the distributor. Dont know if its possible to move it closer to the rockers. The sender unit is new. How ever the meter on the dash is older so it could be of in its scale. Been thinking about getting hold of a mechanical unit and measure it. So I can have a baseline.

 

I was a bit surprised when I removed the old ones. Couldt see any wear at all. Except one that had very little wear if you squinted hard. But when I look at the position it had now its one of the lifters with the best preassure. So I guess I was lucky and got it out before any damage was done.

Ive been a bit concerned about the cam. But it shows no symptoms of it being worn. At least how the engine sounds and runs. Had a car once with a worn cam and it ran really bad.

The gauge is reading around 70/75 psi cold idle.
When it warms up it go down to about 35 psi idle
When i drive its about 60/70psi at 50mph.

 

That is an interesting question. Must say I dont know much about its history. I checked its casting number and it appears to be 1979 350 CSB that has been bought as a ”crate”. Dont know if they were called crate engines back then. However it doesnt have a make or model attached to it.
Now its put in an 49 shoebox with a fourspeed saginaw and 8” Ford rear. It has 305 heads and block huggers.

The car was bought in Wichita some years ago and exported to Sweden.

About oil restrictors. Ive read about them but havent really understood the reason for someone to put them in. Racing application I guess?
No way to tell if I have em unless I pull the motor?

 

Does the block have an oil port up top near the timing cover? If so check oil pressure there, it's the lifter oil galley.

 

Checked. Only plug I have in the front by the timing cover is this one. Its located on passenger side.
Would that be the one you mention?

 

Yes, That is the one.

 

X2, that’s where my dad put a oil pressure gauge on his engine before firing it up.

 

Here is a clip how it looks after about 5 minutes. As you can see it has oil flow by then.
But it takes about 60 seconds to even get a small trickle of oil to the rockers. Then it slowly increase until it reaches this at warm idle.

https://youtube.com/shorts/CHhwalqTukI?feature=share

The sound at the end is when my lamps cable hits the generator haha

 

That actually looks quite good. Does the oil pressure come right up or does it take a while also?

 

The oil pressure comes right up at the gauge when the motor starts. But nothing at the rockers for about 60 seconds. Then a slow trickle begins from the pushrods at the back lifters and works itself forward. Doesnt sound good at all during this, but quiets down after a couple of minutes. So I guess the cam and lifters takes a real beating the first few minutes.

 

Does the engine have a stock oil pan? Any signs of damage to the bottom of the oil pan? Have you ever removed the oil pan to see if the oil pick-up tube and strainer are properly installed?

Would also be a good time to look in the bottom of the pan to see if it looks like there's any "funny bits" laying around.

 

Could your pushrods be limiting flow? Such as being filled inside with sludge or whatever and the cold thick oil takes a long time to get through, but once warmed up and thinner it can flow better? New pushrods are cheap enough to try replacing them.

 

My old 331 hemi has done that ever since I first built it 40 years ago. Rattles for 30 seconds or so until the lifters fill. 40,000 or so miles on the engine and no sign of extraordinary wear or damage.

 

Thats actually my next plan to check the pan.
Its a stock pan but it has a small dent in the lowest flat area where the plug is.
Theoreticaly the pickup could be to close to botttom. However the motor ran nice with it before, but It would be good to see if there is any sludge.

 

I changed them with the lifters and checked them. So they are ok. However there could be some blockage between the oil pressure sender unit and the start of the oil gallery. But im unsure how big or small those oil channels are. The ones ive been able to see are quite big and require a substantial blockage to hinder flow.

 

Blob of silicone or a hunk of gasket can make a pretty efficient restriction

 

Perhaps unrelated to your issue, two things strike me.
First, 1979 is the GM soft cam era. I would want to measure the valve lift.
Second, I would be curious of the cold flow reaction, with straight weight 30.
Hope you can solve this dilemma.

 

No disrespect intended. You're probably a way better wrench than me. The last time I changed lifters and the rest, was in the late 60s. But think about what you touched in the lifter change over. Is it possible that a gasket, a bushing, or a screw is backward or wrong application? It seems like you have a restriction but not a total one.
I hope you figure it out soon and can get your bad self on down the road. Yea!!

 

After seeing the video, I think I would rule out oil restrictors in the block.
That's A lot of oil flow.
Back to the drawing board.

Bill

 

Could disassemble one of the old lifters looking for sludge ?

 

I would think that the relief valve in the pump is stuck open,Remove the dist an install a priming tool and crank the drill motor and see how it oils.Remove the pump and see if it the valve is free.

 

That did happen to me once. But I had very low oil pressure on a freshly built engine. This one has good oil pressure, so I don’t think that is the problem.

 

Is this the correct oil flow path? Doesn't make sense one side would oil faster then the other unless the lifter bores are worn out. Where does the distributor get it's oil?

 

Front view?