Progress #2 - 1st Flattie Teardown - OMG!!!! -

Well, tonight I decided to remove a few items so I can sandblast and clean them up. My plan (as so was everyones advice here in the neighborhood) was to just drop in the motor and run.

Its a 53 Merc Flathead, and a first for me. I have always considered myself unlucky when it came to the best of the best in most everything. But this time, I was able to get in the front of the pack and pull a huge smile out of my pocket.

Anyhow, I start on one of the waterpumps and w/ some surprise, a bolt come out (the hidden one) very easy. I have torn down early 30's flatties in the past and what a pain it was to remove that bolt. Well, long story short the bolt was sheared...oh what disgust.

My bud Danny909 was over and we decided, what the hell, lets pull the other pump...and there it went like a domino effect. The intake was next, heads.......

All I can say is there is a ton of **** in the valley and sludge that mimics the tar pits full of dinosaurs.

Here are a few picts.

I do have a few questions...Everything moves nice and freely. I wire brushed the block to look for noticable cracks and nothing was seen. My plan is to (at this point) hot tank the block, and put it back together w/ new bearings and rings. (is this advisable, has anyone done it and kept the reliability/no smoke factor in check?)

What are some suggestions from you "ole Wise" flathead guru's of what I should do at this point.. Basically, I want to know it all, Im a sponge ready to inflate....My plans for the motor are: If affortable, a mild cam, and a double deuce intake...the rest of the motor Ill leave stock.

Here go the picts!!!

 

Removing the intake...to the sludge pit!!!!

 

Have a look see....

 

I thought the only sludge was the "oil pit", check out the "volcano sludge"....Yack!!!

 

Here was a quick compression check....I dont know if its good but Im guessing probably not...it was done on the back cylinder on p***enger side (faceing the rear).

 

Remove-O-heads!!!!

 

I wire brushed around the valves, here is a close up...I was surprisingly happy at the result...nothing of severe damage/cracks...wohooo!!! This was on the p***enger bank.

 

Drivers bank....

 

Check out the rust turd that was in the water p***age...that sum-***** was huge!!!! (Danny909 holding sample)

 

Great tech. Keep us posted !

 

Wow! How did you guys get those pictures off of my Computer? Seriously, those could have been me during my first Flathead teardown. I think that they are ALL like that. I even had the "turd of rust" in the water jacket

Good luck with the build!
Mike

 

I've got to get the 8ba out of the F-1 today, same with mine, test the compression on all 8, best cylinder had 60lbs. I'm going to do the same as you 'cept my geezer friend is itching to do one more port and relieve before he kicks, I think I'll let him.

I'll try and keep up, but work, school and a new room addition are going to be in compe***ion for my time.

 

[ QUOTE ]
I even had the "turd of rust" in the water jacket

[/ QUOTE ] Those are just the ones you see, How about ones that won't or don't come out after a thorough cleaning?
And now you know why I don't run thermostats, after cooking a head last year.

 

they all look like that at first,welcome to being addicted to flatheads

 

Chopped, if the lifter valley has that kind of "crud" in it; be sure to pull the sludge trap plugs out of the crankshaft (at the rod journals) and give them a good cleaning also. There is a good (or bad) chance they will be plugged up. If they are NOT cleaned it could starve the crank bearings of oil.

From the pictures, it looks like you have a "keeper" block to start a rebuild with.

I would go with a complete teardown and hot tank the block. Then spend some time with an old coathanger and poke around all the water jackets to see if any core sand might still be inside. (helps cooling when the engine is re***embled)

 

Sorry, I really dont want to hijack this post, but I must share some before shots of my flathead. Proof that they may look nasty as hell inside, but may still be useable. They might look sludgy, but have you seen one yet like this?



timing cover gasket made from a 1967 farmers insurance calender.




This is the engine I dragged (literally with my pickup) out of a field in northern Wyoming. Mouse hotel for sure. Surprisingly most of the engine was useable, but damn it was nasty evacuating the mouse brothel from the oil pan! There was a nice mid 30's poncho next to this motor that was cherry and unrestored, just missing all the fabric and padding for the front seat. I told the owner of the car after I popped the pan that I knew where most of his front seat ended up. Yuk.

 

Holy **** to the highest level. Just seeing that made the hair stand on end...Its so amazing how them critters get in every place we would never think.

Thanks for the compiments on the motor. IM excited especially w/ the condition. I believe I found (1) crack, but not too sure if it is or even a casting issue. I will have it checked or repaired if needed. For the most part, the block is in great shape.

I guess to move forward, should I consider getting new pistons or re-ring what I have. There is a lip in teh cylinder, but I cant tell if its a "factory" lip put there. What would you suggest. Im on a above limited budget (if that makes any sense) so a full-on machine and rebuild w/ new parts is definitely out of the question if I want to use it within the next year.

Cam issues: Is it worth getting a mild cam? Anyone got one laying around?

Im more concerned on the issue of bearings and rings at this point, what should i replace, and what is okay to keep.

HAMB'ers are a ton of help and again, its much appreciated.

BTW: Post away on yer flattie photos, there's no Hi-jacking here...we all learn from each others experiences...and memories.

 

Lip's gotta go, whether to rebore is a value judgement if lip is shallow--rebore is better, but perfection costs, and a poor rodder can get away with some taper and new rings. If piston grooves are worn out or there is a lot of wear and taper (definition of "lot" is personal and $ related), the rebore starts to look like only way--there's less than perfect and there's junk, and you have to decide where the divide is with some advice from real builders. Cam is MANDATORY because stock is absurdly mild. Like most SBC's, a hotter than stock cam will help without even affecting low end, the stocker is so mild. Stock late ignition is ****, IMHO, and virtually unworkable with multicarbs--expensive way out is the elusive good aftermarket one, a possible cheap way is switch to 21A cam and crab distributor, a very cheap changeover if changing cam anyhow. Ask for the mandatory details...
Bearings also depend on amount of wear/out of round. I would replace cam bearings, as this is a potential drastic leak in your oil presure if worn.
Closely scrutinize valves and seats. Ford slowly dropped hard seats during late production, see if yours has 8, 16, or no hard seats. Hard seats can usually be refurbished with almost no work. How do valve seating surfaces look? Do valves have much side axial play? You might have a good set needing only an Okie Valve job cleanup, you might have a basket of junk that really must be replaced for decent performance. If you can hone, clean, lap and re***emble, you could be on the road next week for a hundred dollars--or you might need to redo everything at vast cost to make the effort worthwhile.
Each bit of work required leads on to more, too--if valves and seats are junk, then it starts looking more sensible to port it, reshape valves carefully, etc.--you get the idea--a cheap rebuild is a viable option if everything is lightly worn, but is a complete waste of time if wear is excessive. If you have to do machine work, then a much closer approach to perfection starts looking possible, and out comes the money.

 

Chopped, Bruce has "nailed it." Reusing worn parts is just a bandaid. To spend a little more doing the job RIGHT the FIRST time around is the only way you will be satisfied. Cutting corners will only waste money.

 

Bruce...Perfect!!

That helps alot...I do want to run a double deuce intake so the cam will have to go. Ill keep my eyes open for one from this point on. If a rebore is in order, then it has to be done, sure it may take a bit to get it on the road, but eveything will be nice and tight and thats the way it should be.

My block is in (IMHO) looks to be in great shape an a "okie" valve hone job looks all that is needed and reboring the cylinders. Any suggestions on piston purchases? (Egge) type, ie: round top, flat top, Im not a lead foot and dont plan to race it very much, but want more on the reliability side.

 

Chopped 50 Ford;All good info from the guys here;I'd like to say that you should get the water jackets 100% clean.I used a mixture of Muriatic acid and water to dissolve all the crud in my block.It takes a bit of time and is messy,but it gets the block absolutely clean.The acid is available at most hardware stores;used for pool cleaning and is cheap.I paid $5.99 in cheap looney dollars for a gallon.Be sure to wear rubber gloves and a facemask and be in a well ventilated area.
Your flatty will run cooler and you will too.

 

29SX276 - do you dump the whole block in like a 50 gal. drum and let it reside for a few days? How do you do the muriatic acid clean. I know that Hot Tanking these days really dont do it as well as it used to.

Great Idea 29SX276, the cleaning is on my list of things to do.

 

the head surface looks good,but i wouldn't get overly excited until i had it magnefluxed....i had one that looked nicer than that,have a huge crack in it that i couldn't beleive i didn't see....of co**** the cold weather is a hard on things out here

 

[ QUOTE ]
I used a mixture of Muriatic acid and water to dissolve all the crud in my block.It takes a bit of time and is messy,but it gets the block absolutely clean.

[/ QUOTE ]

Muriatic acid works very well. Be sure to coat all machined surfaces with grease before using it though - the acid fumes alone will etch everything & have them rusting in no time. Rinse well when done & neutralize with lots of baking soda in the water.

Some folks put iron heads on w/good gaskets & stand the block on it's tail & fill from the pumps. Others bolt the pumps on & use a radiator plug to cover the pump outlet & do one bank at a time with the surface level. Either way is fine - the stand on tail end is quicker (do both sides at once), but check it often to make sure the gaskets don't let any of the acid leak out into your cylinders! To be safe, I'd coat everything but the water jackets in a heavy coat of grease...

 

Chopped50Ford;Flat Ernie has it exactly right.I had the block on an engine stand,blocked off the water pump outlet and rotated the block until the one bank of cylinders was level and filled it to the top of the block with a 50% mix of water/acid.Go stronger if the block is really loaded with "rust turds".Repeat for the other bank.Like Flat Ernie stated,stuff really rusts after an acid bath so cover all the sufaces with oil/grease.
Use a drip tray or go outside as this stuff is messy and leaves a rust stain like you won't believe.More permanent than baby **** on a blanket!!Enjoy!!

 

[ QUOTE ]
I used a mixture of Muriatic acid and water to dissolve all the crud in my block.

[/ QUOTE ]

What percentage of Muriatic acid did you buy? (the pool stuff comes in several different strengths) And how much did you dilute it with the water. The pure acid can be damn nasty.

Jezze, this topic is hot tonight, 5 replies while I was typing mine!

 

I did mine outside & used full-strength hardware store brand stuff - don't know the concentration, but it rusted everything near it too. It eats your clothes, shoes, everything. The fumes are noxious too & can't be good for you (it's acid for chrissake!). Keep the kids & pets away for sure - wear gloves & EYE PROTECTION.

Before I did this, I spent some time with long screwdrivers & coat hangers digging & poking around in the p***ages to loosen it all up. Then I got some heavy cardboard & rolled the block around on the concrete (cardboard for a little padding) to further loosen it up. Then more time with screwdrivers & coat hangers. THEN the acid bath for several days.

When I was done, my water p***ages were spotless. Looked brand new, fresh cast.

 

For $60-$70 you can have your block cleaned with the bake-and-blast process that's been in vogue in SoCal's LA basin since the '70s when the SCAQMD mandated something more atmosphere-friendly than hot tanking.

Castings are actually cleaner than when they left the foundry. I had this 8CM block, plus heads and timing cover, B&B cleaned several weeks ago at Selby's in Santa Rosa. (They also magnafluxed it and marked the couple of inconsequential cracks.) Total bill was a hundred bucks -- money well spent.

 

If you haven't already, pick up a copy of Frank Oddo's book Rebuilding the Ford Flathead. That's my .02...

 

Mike, are those intake ports showing some of your recent "magic??"

I was browsing through an old book the other day and came across a piece on "block cleaning."

The fellow had taken the drum off an old cement mixer. He blocked off the head and water pump surfaces of the engine and made a "cradle" to attach the engine to the cement mixer,(in place of the drum) Before blocking off the openings, he got some Wheelabrator (sp?) shot (used for cleaning castings) and placed it in each side of the engine. He let the whole block rotate (with the shot bouncing around inside) for the better part of a day.

He claims that the inside of the water jackets were "clean as whistle." Plus he said that A LOT of core sand got knocked free!