My appraisal was $100 and this guy is "certified" to do this. I went back to him twice in the past year to increase the value and he didn't charge me.
Grundy only has 'Agreed Value' policies. If the car is a lesser valued vehicle (under $15K), they may waive the requirement to have an appraisal done. I'd still have one done. Sometimes the value of your car will surprise you. I'd also keep a folder with lots of pictures, especially dated photos. I'd do this even with a daily driver. Mainline insurance companies wouldn't know where to look for a price on parts. I looked at a '50 Ford business coupe that had been rear ended here in Florida. The other company was Progressive. Progressive had no idea where to start on that car. I wrote a $13K estimate to repair the car and Progressive paid off my estimate and I was advised they were keeping my card in case someone hits another vintage car.
Swiftster are you an independent claims adjuster? You are right, it happened a long time ago, and that car is 25 feet from my front door, and the details of my case are not relevant any more, but I walk by the consequenses every day. I should have been more on top of things back then. The policy for that car was American Family. Agreed value/stated value either way(don't remember, and the file is buried) I paid extra for full coverage EXACTLY to cover the what if scenario that turned real. I paid for a certified appraiser who still does my cars. My agent ***ured me that I had "insurance". Someone please explain to me why the only claim that I have ever filed was neither accepted or denied, just flat out NOT PAID. The facts of the damage were not in dispute since it happened 1/2 block from the Aspen Police department and they heard me yelling at the driver and responded in record time. The independent claims adjuster that I delt with did not seem to do anything but work to prevent payment to anybody (except maybe himself?). Is that common? This discussion is relevant to every hot rodder that thinks he has insurance. The premise of all insurance companies I have dealt with directly and indirectly is WE WILL NOT PAY. (unless of course you're making payments on a newer car mostly owned by the bank) A one sided conversation indeed.
Insurance companies pay, thats all there is too it. What they pay might be a matter of discussion, but in all my years of soing this, the cl***ic car claim is so easy and so accurate because thats what the policy is designed to do. Now a private p***enger car doesn't have that and the adjuster will depreciate the vehicle for wear and tear, etc.
What is important here is that people who read this maybe should take a few hours out of the garage and read the fine print.
I am with State Fram..........got hit {hit and run} in my Roadster last year, 9 k to repair. Got paid promptly.......no problem
swifster Thaks for the info -- make me feel better now that I understand Grundy a little better -- have never had a problem with them -- but don't want to either One of my cars is covered for $65K -- the other is for $25K -- and yes -- I had to send them plenty of pictures, an appraisal, etc -- but the appraisal was done probably 4 years ago - - so I don't know if it is even still valid ? So again -- if you have "Argeed Value" - - you are in pretty good shape ? Thanks
Who does the certifying of appraisers? I know, in other industries, that there are plenty of websites etc where you can get "certified" (or "ordained"!) for $50. Is there a legit, nationally recognized organization that insurance companies won't question an appraiser from?
Like others have said both Grundy and Hagerty ONLY offer Agreed Value policies. "We've" gone though this before. HUGE difference between AGREED Vaule (You and the insurance company AGREED what the value is and that is what you pay your premimns based on) Grundy and Hagerty are these types of policies. In case of a total loss you get a check for the agreed amount, paid in full, no deductable. I got paid in full for the agreed amount for my burnt '47 Chevy convert by Hagerty no h***les. STATED Value (daily drivers policies) the insurance company states to you what the cars value is. No such thing as an invaild appraisal, might be old, with an old value but you do NOT need a new appraisal to call up your insurance company and raise the value of your car/cars. An appraiselis just a starting place for YOU to evalute what a "professional" thinks your car is worth. You can always insure it for more of less depending on what you are comfortable with, or course within reason. You can't insure a car worth $20,000 for $100,000, the insurance companies aren't stupid. I have never sent an appraisel to Grundy, ever, for Big Olds and he is completely covered for his full value, then some. I have up-ed his value throughout the years as things have been done to him with a quick email and a few photos added of what new things had been done. Like others have said, know your policy. Your first page "decluration page" states what type of policy it is and if it says "Agreed Value" it will state the exact value the car is insured for.
Thanks Swifster, Ratrod and Denise for the good advice. When Progressive offered me 3.5K less than the recent value of my daily driver (they didn't want to cover the actual replacement cost) I had to go to the state Insurance Commission and get a complaint filed against them. They offered another 1K, and as I had already replaced the car, we had a heated conversation. The NYTimes provided the info on the increased diesel values about one month later. Junkyardroad mentions an unfortunate reality, regarding the ethics of many discount insurers.
Yes, I'm currently an independent appraiser (adjusters write checks, appraisers appraise ). I run my own business, and along with vintage cars, I also inspect regular daily rides for Occidental and Auto Owners. As for I/A's (independent appraiser/adjuster), it can be hit & miss. Some guys know more than others. I like to think I know what I'm doing . It is NOT our job to cheat someone on their claim. The car is what the car is. Either something is damaged or it's not. If it's damaged, you fix it....peroid. There may be a difference of opinion on the scope of the repair (repair vs replace, new part vs used or reproduction, etc.). This gets worked out between the appraiser/adjuster and the repair shop. The only collectable car claim that I've been involved with that has been denied was a '87 Corvette convertible that was a POS, and the owner had driven it 17,000 miles over the 9 months the car had been insured by Infinity and the car had a 3000 mile limit. That doesn't make me a pushover. But the decision is that of the adjuster. I'm mearly the eyes of the adjuster and the final decision is their's. I may make a suggestion, but the final decision is not mine. The estimate of damage is my domain. Why wasn't your claim paid? I can't answer that. I wasn't there. Did the policy lapse? Your insurance company, regardless of who hit you, is the primary coverage. In this case, you could have demanded that American Family pay on their policy. The reason I won't get too involved is that I don't have access to the claim folder to see what transpired. And that file has been purged long ago because of time. I will summarize this for you though. I have never been told to cheat anyone. I have never known anyone to cheat anyone on purpose. I've seen people make mistakes, and most of the time it was corrected. As an independent, I have never been told how to write the estimate other than the guidelines every insurance company may have. I was trained by the largest insurance company in Michigan (AAA) and was told they have 3 rules. One, don't cheat the customer! Two, don't cheat the repair shop! And three, don't cheat the company. I have always worked on this philosophy. I have fixed total losses with the companies approval. I have overpayed a total loss once or twice. WHY??? Because the insured (customer) had been with the company for a long time and had few or no claims (and I'm a ****er for little old ladies ). As an adjuster, I was told I could do anything (obviously within reason) as long as I do***ented what I was doing and why. Any insurance company I've worked for, as an employee or a vendor, the rules have been the same. The policy dictates the rules I follow. Nothing more or nothing less. I have denied claims with cause. Policies had expired, the damage was fraudulant or intentionally done (arson). I've denied stuff on a paid claim as not part of the loss (old, unrelated damage). Did I do this with malace? Nope. The policy is what it is. It's not a maintenance policy. I have 6 vintage car losses I'm dealing with now and I can safely tell you that none of my estimate total $0.
Don't want to kijack this thread, but as long as we're on the subject, any names/links to insurance companies that handle/know/understand hot rods, and other collector type cars? I think I've read enough here that I need to sit down and have a heart to heart talk with my Allstate agent (also a personal friend), and see what he has to say about this. IIRC, he recently was changed from company agent to independent agent, free to write any insurance with any company. Might be worth his while to look into this little niche and add it in to his offerings? Dave
Pitman, each state has a different set of rules that an insurance compny has to live by. New York's rules are different than Michigan's and both are different than Florida. The idea of any state and any insurance company to pay ACTUAL CASH VALUE (ACV)! Some states like Florida base settlement off the NADA values with deductions for itemized old, unrelated damage if any. Progreesive is a strang beast because their claims people get minimal training before being tossed to the wolves. Young, unexperienced employees cost less (and THAT is how they sell their insurance cheaper!). I hate to blame the adjuster only because this is a lack of knowledge and experience. The policy is still the policy. I'll give you an example how things can get screwed up. A few years back, a friend's mother-in-law totaled her '91 Buick Regal. The car had 40,000 miles and looked like new. Many companies do third party evaluations from outside companies. These are a great way to streamline the time involved, but they are only as accurate as the information given. The appraiser from GMAC saw the car in a snowbank (in Michigan) and didn't bother to get out of his warm car ). He graded the car as average (on a scale of 0-3, this is a 1). He also missed half the equipment on the car (which effects the value). My friend called me when they were offered $2300 for it. Enter into this was that the inside adjuster was relatively inexperienced and was standing her ground when she had never seen the car. I rewote my own estimate and found that the appraiser for GMAC missed almost $2500 in damage. What this says is that the appraiser was lazy. I took pictures of the entire car, including the beautiful interior. I knew the supervisor of this inside adjuster and tried to discuss this just to explain what I saw. He wouldn't see me . I completed a complete claim file on the car, and wrote a not-to-complementary letter along with my notes on the car and sent this to the inside adjuster, the supervisor, the branch claim manager and the regional claim manager in St.Louis. This ticked off quite a few. In the end, I was able to get the third party evaluation changed to represent the equipment on the car and the condition (a '3'). In the end she was paid $4350 plus tax. Now, was GMAC intentionally trying to cheat their customer. I don't think so. Most companies will back their employees to the hilt (supervisor). Sometimes ego gets involved (inside adjuster) as well as some lazyness (appraiser). This all falls into the sad side of human nature. Many younger or inexperienced adjusters tend to dig their heels in early and prove they are right. I learned early that I don't know it all, and that I also need to see things from the others point of view. This may not make me change my decision on something, but I'll definitely consider what I've been told. Again, I've never seen anyone intentionally try to screw someone, but I've seen plenty of mistakes.
To me, I'd feel comfortable with Grundy, Hagerty and Infinity Cl***ic Collectors. Grundy and Hagerty have no mileage limits and Infinity does. If you consistently drive the car under 5000 miles a year, don't count out Infinity, as they can be very compe***ive. One other thing to remember. Most companies try to deal with the best I/A (appraiser) they can. Infinity also sells sub-prime insurance, like Geico, Progressive or other low priced choices. In some cases, if they have their own staff in the area, they may sent one of their own appraisers. This can be hit or miss. But the inside staff in Windsor, CT are top notch and will take care of you just like the other two. There are other companies that deal in collector car policies and will provide good insurance. If your agent suggests another company, check out their websites, find out where their claims offices are and if you have questions on how their claims are handled, call them. And by that, I mean the claims department. Good luck.
I know American National offers "Chrome" insurance which covers awide variety of cl***ic, hot rod, and modified insurance. Check them all and be informed. Don't wait until Swifster arrives at your door to find out you weren't covered correctly. We need more adjusters like him that know this hobby!
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