Protecting you engine from ethanol

im glad you see the light!


a single wire o2 sensor and a DVOM can tell you WORLDS about what a carb is doing


touching on what you said, a naturally aspirated engine has a lot of room to move around and be safe when its not spot on, mixture wise.....
thats why i was saying, most wont need to mess around with it that much, or even notice it at all. for some reason i find most carb'ed vehicles running too rich in the first place.... a little leaning out doesnt hurt them lol

on the other hand, turbo and supercharged engines need to be monitored very closely.

its neat seeing some people mix new and old skool technology.

 

Denial desn't make problems go away.

 

I dump HEET in my tanks out of habit, if my fingers are cold my brain says its time for HEET.

You have to use a lighted magnifier to read the plugs, just like the real racer guys do. If you look at the bottom of the insulator you will get as accurate as you can by eye. It does work.

I have a feiend that jets for an eye burner then drops a jet size that seems to work for him.

I have had fellas bring me an older engine with newer plugs and the insulators are all craked and burnt. Also a good indicator that you are running lean.

When you are properly jetted for E10 (we don't have E15 here yet) you will be fat on Gasoline. Not so fat as to gas foul plugs but a little on the fat side.

You have to remember that you cannot tune it like an alchy mill. There is not enough alcohol in the mix to do that.

 

You're correct, of course.
But I think the point Da Tinman was attempting to make, that apparently went right over your head, is that you can't fix a problem that you've never encountered in the first place....

 

yea but you can let it eat at you until you can't think straight enough to get your car out of the garage. fear is a good paralyzing agent.

 

I looked at wal marx and couldn't find any of the Star tron stabilzer but I did find some made by lucas. I bought a few bottles of it and put some in my car, tractor and air compressor.

 

amen brother

 

thats what i have been using to stabilize my E85.

 

IMHO, Ethanol is only part of the problem we face with the new fangled gasoline today.

About 2 years ago, the EPA changed all 53 US formulations to eliminate the propane in the gas & radically increase the amount of oxygenators in the blends.

These oxygenators are designed to burn the fuel faster to make up for the loss of BTUs per gallon. However, these additives eat all the rubber bits in an old fuel system very quickly & ANYTHING rubber will degrade remarkably fast now. Carb gaskets, O-rings, floats, hoses, etc need to be inspected.

There are NO rubber hoses that will withstand these oxygenators for long (even Stainless Braided). That leaves us with the choice of replacing them on a regular basis or going to PTFE/Teflon lines. You'll know when your hoses are shot because they get brittle & the garage smells like raw gas all the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkuopDCny4s

 

you can go with something like Earl's pro-lite 350 for a under-the-radar style looking hose. its a black braided nylon covering on it, with a teflon line, or what you are saying- a braided steel teflon line.

 

Not good enough, it's still rubber inside:

Pro-Lite 350 Hose has a tough, abrasion-resistant nylon sheathing bonded to the embedded textile braid in the synthetic rubber liner

That's the problem with most of the hoses out there.

 

crap- you busted me. shame on me for not verifying that. i talked to the holley tech before purchasing it for my fuel system- he said it should work with ethanol with no issues.


i guess ill be the guinea pig for 400 bucks in fuel lines lol! so far, so good- 1 1/2 years and a bunch of fuel thru it!

 

I really would like to know more about this 1 wire O2 sensor and a DVOM meter to read air/fuel ratio. Can you explain or furnish a link? THX
Dave

 

a one wire o2 sensor will create its own voltage. they are also cheap- about 60 bucks. o2 sensor bung is about 3 bucks.

so a bung near the exhaust header or collector is needed. may have to do one side, then the other depending on engine and setup. sometimes it goes "offline" when idling for a while cause the o2 doesnt stay hot enough- no big deal. its there for tuning, not for engine operation...... regardless, you can just run it to the DVOM, ground the other side of the DVOM, and watch the voltages while driving around to see what its reading. high voltage=rich low voltage=lean. shoot for .6 volts (or 600 millivolts)


when your done farting around with it, you can put an O2 sensor plug on it, or hell, leave the sensor in there.

there are lots of little ditty's on the 'net about "tuning a carb with an O2 sensor" and the like. im just tellin ya what i have done on carbed engines that havent seen dyno time and know they are set up 100%.

 

I tune with this: http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/zt2/zt2.shtml

I run the EGT sensor on boosted applications, and the MAP sensor on all (boost/vacuum).

It has a heated (3-wire) wide-band Oxygen sensor.

No more guessing. No more wasted fuel.

As for hoses: http://www.dupontelastomers.com/Applications/Automotive/emissions.asp

They are in all of my rigs, including the motorcycles.

 

thats a nice getup there.


you just swap it out on each customers rig your tuning im assuming? or are you putting one on each car and leaving it there?

that thing is cheap as hell too! i spent that much on an AEM serial port gauge lol!
if you want data logging and true wideband, thats a hell of a set up man.......

for teh cheap bastards, you can one wire it for 65 bucks and use the DVOM.

i may have to get one of those just to play around with it.

 

It goes from car to car (or whatever). I weld an EGT and O2 bung in just about everything I work on. Even my vintage BMW motorcycle has a set hidden underneath. I was even able to set both carbs, by using the MAP sensor!

 

what, you dont like using the multi carb manifold gauge? lol! you may be stepping on some old skool HAMB'ers toes with this new fangled computer jive your' talkin'

 

I do. I have a Motion Pro Mercury one, and a Uni-Syn. I can kick it old-school, too.

 

I've worked in the wholesale gasoline industry for 25 years, so have some lay insights into ethanol fuel and hot rods.

Ethanol is hydrophilic, meaning it attracts water from the atmosphere. That is why it can't be used in aircraft: it would cause fuel system icing at altitude. Therefore you should not let ethanol fuel sit for much over 30 days in your hobby vehicles. My solution for hobby vehicles that drive only occasionally is to run one of the non-ethanol gasolines available from several sources. Some you could consider are:

1) Race gas: Very expensive. Contains lead antiknock compounds. Limited availability.

2) Fuel stabilizers: Claim to work to prevent ethanol gas deterioration. Available at any auto parts retailer. I have no experience with these.

3) Aviation Fuel, ie Avgas: Available at airports. High octane. Usually can't get your car into the aircraft fueling area, but you can fill a gas can. Expensive and impractical.

4) Non-ethanol Supreme: This is my personal choice. In my state, gas stations carrying non-ethanol supreme are relatively easy to find. I'm a member of a cardlock system whose supreme gas is ALL non-ethanol. It is legal for use in motor vehicles due to the numerous complaints from the public of ethanol fuel damaging motors that sit idle for prolonged periods. It is more expensive than corn gas, but not nearly as high as race gas or avgas.

 

Off topic pre year 2004 cars run like shit in on the east coast of Aus, for all of the above reasons.
Both my rods run LPG, I think you guys call it propane.

Why dont we leave the corn and grain to FEED the poor buggers who are starving?
Thats my 2 cents.
Rod

 

These alcohol treads are dead horse,as for corn being used to feed the poor starving,I'm tired of that shit too.
Bottom line is "You can't do anthing about it,adapt,build your own refinery or still,then shut up about it" and you can quote me on that.

 

no one starving in this country! most are fat!

 

Right on - I'm going to keep on driving the jalopy, whatever it takes!

 

Man this thread is like free-association psych' test.., at least related to topic: What's " Neoprene" as in neoprene fuel line ?

is it "alcohol safe" ? .

 

I have sold a few of the blue stabil they say its good for use with ethanol.. no findings of my own though...

 

After all these years of piss poor gas, and cleaning the carbs on the old Catepillar 2 cylinder pony start engines my brother started using AV gas, what a difference the higher octane and the lead, there is no more problems and they start and run like they are susposed to, clean and crisp, no lag, no faltering, but it is expensive.

 

Do know this from personal experience: The blend goes gummy faster. Doesn;t last under storage. And the boat thing is for real, until recently most gas tanks on big boats are made of fiberglass, and ethanol dissolves the resin. Real issue there. Maybe the midwesterners don't have that problem!

 

Shee, sorry if I bored you, you seem such a nice guy
Rod

 

Thats true, but there are OTHER countries trying to enforce E10.
Thats my opinion
Cheers
Rod