Pulling my hair out, FE Probs. SHOULDA USED A SBC

I think you have all the answers so far. If it ran fine before the cam and runs bad after the cam then the camshaft needs degreed witha degree wheel.
While you have it apart send me the ignition system , distributor, coil etc and i will check it all on a machine, adjust the curve if needed and check the compatibility of the parts. No charge just to help and you pay shipping.......

 

Nope, every FE I know of from 352-428 uses the 15426378 order.
Cam timing marks should have been lined up across when closest to each other. In other words cam timing mark at the bottom and crank timing mark at the top.

 

Your Professional Products balancer is a piece of shit, with out a doubt. You are MUCH better off with a stocker. That doesn't mean the balancer is your problem, I'm just saying it is a piece of shit.

Try this: First, put your timing light back in the toolbox. Then, fire the engine, hold the rpms to 3000-3500 and adjust the distributor untill the engine is the smoothest. You will feel it stumble when it is too retarded, and stumble when it is too advanced. Try to find the sweet spot. Then tighten the distributor hold down.

Then, take her around the block and post again.

-Abone.

 

Sorry i could have swore that in my old chilton there were 2 different firing orders.But i would not doubt i am wrong.

 

One more thing....When you get this FE figured out, you will throw rocks at a small block Chevvie.

-Abone.

 

I vote (1) pushrods are too long or (2) timing chain is off a tooth.

 

You can mix up a SBF if you put a windsor cam in a 289/302, the orders are different but the throws on the cranks are the same. I never figured out why.

As for the timing chain cam sprocket mark being straight up instead of down, if you align them facing together, then turn the crank 360° the cam mark will be straight up, so that's not really an issue here.

 

The only thing that I have had any exp. with that is close to your description is retarded cam timing. I still timed mine at the same place as before I made a mistake so I don't have a good answer for you. I think from the answers you've provided, that I would swap cams and see if you have the same results. I grew up with FE's and I didn't have hardly any trouble with them. It might help to have another set of eyes to look over what you have done just in case you have overlooked something. Be calm and good luck.

 

By any chance does the timing chain you used have the multi key-way gears?? If so did you degree the camshaft ?? I have seen the gears lined up wrong a bunch of times. It's an easy mistake to make. Degreeing the cam will assure that the cam timing is correct and take all the head scratching out of the story. When I get the cam timing set the next step is to fit the timing cover,timing pointer,and then the balancer. This will assure everything is in check. If you didn't check all of these while building the engine you will spend a ton of time trying to find the glitch. Just another note I have had timing gears marked wrong also !! Good luck >>>>.

 

the timing set crank gear only has one key, but has number on the other teath for how ever many degrees you want the cam advanced. so i know thats right. its installed evenup.

either the timing set is wrong, which is entirely possible i guess, or im just dumb and am missing something.

i think im just gonna yank the engine out again and start from the beginning.

 

I totally agree with this. thats why i rebuilt this engine. but its getting the better of me.

 

Try another distributor or adjust the advance on yours for your cam. When i got my chevy stroker running i put the distributor in 180 out. It ran alright till you stepped on gas. Then it shot flames out the carb!

 

i think i might take bubba up on his offer. i dont have another dist for this car, and i dont want one, this has a factory Cable drive tach in it.

 

Step 1:
Take the crappy pertronix out of the dist (they're junk), since you want to keep your distributor because it has the factory cable tach drive, you can take the compnents out of any V8 ford duraspark distributor and install them into your existing distributor housing (I've done many of them, another note all Ford V8 distributors built from 1957 till current used the same top half meaning you can install duraspark components into your Y block, or FE distributor, or you can get a reman Ford FE duraspark distributor from your local auto parts, just tell them you need a distributor for a 1976 Ford F150 with a 360 and drop it into any FE size engine)

Step 2: Make sure you didn't wipeout any lobes or lifters on your cam before you degree it in.

If I could get my hands on a 1957 or later Y block, and a FE distributor I could do pictorials on how to do the duraspark swap.

 

Seriously man, your distributor is in wrong...I fought this for 2 days on my Poncho...turns out I was putting the distributor in properly, with the motor at the wrong TDC on #1...your valves are closed twice per engine cycle...put it at TDC with your distributor on #1 and take the dizzy out, rotate the motor to TDC on the next cycle and drop the dizzy back in...or call me at 651-387-9480...

 

Cam timing. degree it.

Comp can eat a bag o' dicks. I had a cam from them which was supposed to be installed "straight up".

Like a good boy, I installed it "straight up"

it was WAAAAY off.

 

This makes sense to me. If it helps, great. If not, then repeat so it is where it was previously....easier than removing the engine again.

 

Check the dowel pin in the timing gear. It has to go in the cam for it to be in time. I have had one off before that had the cam slip behind the gear. It was still there showing at the fuel pump eccentric, the timing marks matched up, but I found that TDC was off at the crank barely able to tell, and this was less than a tooth off from TDC on the cam, about like a really loose timing chain. It ran crappy too and a timing light was "WTF am I on the wrong wire here?" .

I pulled the timing gear and chain and the dowel was either sheared and the cam had slipped just a little behind the gear, or it never was put in right where it seated all the way into the cam and had worked its way enough forward to work its way out. There was no piece in the cam, and it was flush with the back of the gear. Maybe a short dowel, I don't know. The washer with the bolt has a flat that goes against the dowel in the front and it has to hold against the dowel to keep it from working out. A trick I use is clean the dowel hole of all oil with brakcleen and apply a little bit (and I mean a little, or it will hydraulic the pin out just like oil will) of blue loctite on the dowel going into the cam, and on the cam bolt. Torque it to spec and watch that the dowel doesn't move forward. If the dowel comes out of the cam it will slip, and it will take a degree wheel to know WTF because it doesn't take alot to really ruin your day.

 

BTW, a Pertronix has to have 12 volts to the ignitor, and your coil has to be ballasted down unless its a 12V coil. If the ignitor doesn't have 12V it can do all kinds of funky things.

I run Duraspark. You can convert a points dizzy to one, you just need to change the breaker plate, weights, reluctor and vacuum advance. The wires will have to be cut and spliced from the pickup through the strain hole and the plug put back on. A Duraspark dizzy has a strain relief that sits in a channel. Someone with a distributor machine should set up your curve though.

 

I agree with Lux Blue, degree the cam.

Have seen to many engines go together with the cam out, and the marks line up.

 

####---- I 2nd this as already mentioned. I never install a comp cam straight up as they all need advanced >>>>.

 

Its a baby cam so the push rods will not be a factor (or shouldnt be) but I would check and see if any of them are bent. Also are the lifters the right ones and did you soak them in oil for a day or so to get them primed before installation. Most people already know this but I have not seen these questions aske yet so what the hey, no harm in asking.

I would also call them back up with the part number and ask them what the firing order is on the cam.

 

On a Ford, is #1 Cylinder the front cyl on the pass side? Right?

You are not trying to line up the marks with the timing light on #5...

Sorry for the elamentary comment, but this Ford vs. GM issue can create problems for GM guys....

 

Did you modify the advance curve to match the cam? Are you using the vaccum advance too, perhaps.
Intial sould be about 8 to 10 with total all in by 3000 rpm. Total should be in the 36 to 38 range, no more. Stock timing wont work stock curve wont work and yes I have done 390 Ford Hp builds.
Don

 

Thats pretty much true. One thing you run into on smog and pre-smog ones is the shape of the weights and how they fit the reluctor. There is also an oddball one that has a strap across the top with the advance up there. If you strip a Duraspark get everything including whole plate and pickup, vacuum advance, the weights, reluctor, the little roll pin that goes in the reluctor slot and locates the shutter wheel. It has to all fit together, and you'll need to inprovise on the strain relief. I set mine up to be all in by 2500, thats initial+ centrifugal at about 37° and the vacuum advance will add another 12° for all together 49°-50° at cruise and set to drop out.

GMC Bubba can fix you up, he can make the dizzy new. I have been doing them for 30 years, but I can't really see good enough to do any but my own.

 

I have one that was marked wrong. It was supposed to be a 270S, but is really a 282S. It idles with about 13.7-14hg of vacuum and degreed to 235.5 @ .050. At first I thought it was a little wilder than it should have been because I was running the lash tighter, .019 instead of .022. I put a wheel on it when I pulled a helicoil out of one of the rockerstands and the damn thing has 12° more duration than it should have and about .040 more lift. They just stamped it and boxed it wrong. Runs like a sumbitch!

 

I reuse the weights that are in the original points distributor.

 

There are two shapes of wieghts and reluctors in the points ones though. I ran into this on using a '69 reclutor that I had welded up to give less advance so I could run more initial on a '65 points dizzy. The weights shape was different and it wouldn't lay down until I put the '69 weights in. Just a very sublte difference in shape. The Duraspark may fit one of them. I just get all of it myself to take no chances. I have converted quite a few. I like the 10L side ones (10° distributor, or 20° at the crank) side on the Dspark if I can use it so I can get 17° initial in. Most of the points ones I have had I had to weld in and shape with a dremel because they are 13Ls. I used to weld in the opposite side to be able to get them down to 8°-9° dist, or 16°-18° crank , so I could run 19°-21° initial. Really responsive with a cam in the 280° range. If you do this with the dizzy still in the car. and you flip it around. you have to restab it because it will be 180° out.

 

1. If using the Pertronix Ignitor and FlameThrower coil, do you have a full 12v to the coil from the ignition switch, or do you have a ballast resistor or resistor wire in between the ignition switch and coil? FlameThrower coils are supposed to have a full 12v, meaning you shouldn't run a ballast resistor or resistor wire. This might be part of the problem.

2. Do you have vacuum advance on the distributor? Is it hooked up and working properly? Some times factory recommendations are to disconnect the vacuum advance when timing - this may be playing into the equation as well.

3. I know you mentioned you're not using the stock harmonic balancer, but for those who are and aren't aware of it, over the years the original rubber insulator between the center of the pulley and the outer sheave will dry out, and the outer sheave will shift, causing the timing to go off. This is very common on FEs and Y-blocks. All the recommendations for finding TDC and marking your pulley are spot-on.

4. Have you considered timing by vacuum gauge reading rather than by timing light? An over-simplification is to set timing by adjusting to pull maximum vacuum and then backing off until it stops pinging. It might be a better way than relying on hitting the mark on the balancer.