Pulling my hair out, FE Probs. SHOULDA USED A SBC

I've got pretty much the same setup. I run 16 deg. initial and 34 total. w/ a mild crane cam. You sure you don't have a FT block and rods.

 

Guys, i know the distributor is not 180 degrees off. It wouldent matter if it was the plug wires are in the correct order. I know the ford runs reverse compared to the chevy.

this thing Runs. it even idles somewhat nicely. but it is NOT right.

Debate the pertronix all you want. i have used them quite a bit and like them. i keep the points plate and everything in the glovebox if it dies, and i can put themback in as a backup.

i am gonna take the engine out, this will allow me to remove the front clip and detail the front suspension while im at it.

 

Sounds like your going to be down for a while. I'm sure what you'll find is a simple combination of minor Fopaws that that together spoiled things for ya. I'm with you on the Pertronix even with my problem in the past. It happens with the best of Products
Best of Luck, The Wizzard

 

You haven't by any chance fitted a marine cam that should run in reverse

 

Pushrod length wont affect the rocker geometry on the FE's shaft rocker system.

That's set by the shafts stand height,and the valve tip heights.

All the pushrod length does on the FE's shaft rocker valvetrain with a hydraulic cam application is set the proper lifter pre-load.

On the solid cam applications,the pushrod length just determines if there is proper "range" in the rocker adjusters to get the desired lash.

If the pushrods are too long,you run out of pre-load or lash adjustment and inturn hang the valves open.

If the pushrods are too short,you get slack in the assembly,and thus a noisy valvetrain.

That and there will be a good chance of tossing a pushrod sooner or later if the slack is enough to allow the pushrod to pop out of the cups in the rocker or the lifter.

But neither situation will affect the actual rocker geometry much at all,as the pivot point remains the same regardless,and the valvestem height is the same as well,therefore the pushrod side cup location is a "fixed point" when the valves are fully closed.

I do agree that milling the heads or block will definitely change the length of the needed pushrod though,but not for geometry reasons.

And I fully support the advice about checking the dowel in the cam,when I pulled my brothers 390 FE apart the dowel was AWOL,and the proper washer was too,I had to replace that stuff when reassembling it,I knew something was'nt right about that deal!!!

Also agree degreeing should be SOP.

And being a pontiac/GM guy,,,I'll always struggle with the ford firing orders and such...

Also the spacer/balancer arrangement is a PITA too,the way the FE has two seperate keyways to deal with,one for the spacer and lower chainset gear,and another for the balancer itself,that is also quite odd to me too,so I could definitely see issues arising there as well,as you can't install the spacer with the balancer key in place,so then you gotta remember to put the seperate balancer key in place when installing the balancer itself.

In a pinch,a vacuum gauge can help tell you what's going on with the timing,but it's a "make-do" approach at best,if you do this,look for the highest/smoothest reading,and that should be close to where you want to be.

I used the motorsport HD timing set,with a crane 272-H10 cam,and that combo of parts all came in right where it was supposed to be when degreed,balancer spot on TDC with the engine @ no 1 in the firing order.

But there are more than a few places for something to wrong,I'll admit,so I take my sweet time working on that one!!!

It'll be interesting to find out what is @ the root of this deal.

 

Now that's cool as shit right there ..

 

So, what's the up-shot? Have we figured this out or is it still nutzo making? It seems to me that at this point a guy should go back at least as far as the cam drive and make sure it all is going together right...Engine up on #1 TDC, valves for #1 closed, drive dowel in place, etc. There's gotta be something that's being missed. No other explanation. All the responses I read could be THE reason, and none of the obvious rookie mistakes seem evident.
As for the cam grind being a 'Chevy small-block' grind, well, if it's true it's only because the little Chevy has been a popular engine for a long time...long enough for it to be considered as a 'standard'. Anyway, the specs are pretty mild, if they check out compared to the cam card. If they don't match the card, maybe it's time to adjust for reality, and go with what you have instead of what you think you have. You might have gotten a different grind than you bargained for.

 

Can I ask the manufacturer of your distributor?

 

Hey, I'm going to throw this out there my son had a 71 f1 with a 390 ( dosn't mean anything ) but I installed a Pertronix moduale in it, it ran great for a week, than one mourning going to school he blew the muffler off of it,he said it was running rough before it happened, I could not get it to run right, messed with it for 2 hours, I swore it was the moduale and I put the points back in it and it ran great.......for a day, than started the same thing again, I changed the coil and it ran great. I've messed with cars for 40 years and never had a coil go bad. easy enough to check, you never know, could be that simple.

 

Mallory

 

I went through something like this with a short block I bought that had been rebuilt. No matter what I did it wouldn't run. Pulled the pan and discovered they had used FT rods.

 

Yeah, cuz you sure wouldn't want a hotter spark, easier starting, elimination of point bounce, stable timing at high rpm, twice the energy to the plugs etc.

Do like your 67 Mustang though

 

At work we've actually gotten 2 timing sets and the "dots" on the crank sprocket were in the wrong place. Make sure they look the same relative to the keyway.

 

You stated that the timing marks on the cam and crank gear are both up (both are in the 12 o'clock position. They should, as you said, meet. The crank gear mark should be at 12 o'clock and the cam gear mark should be at 6 o'clock. I may not have understood you correctly.

 

no they Meet in the middle, the cam is installed "straight up" no advance.


UPDATE

Well, the engine is on my stand, stripped down to the shortblock. this week a friend that builds engines every day for a living is gonna help me Degree the cam and reinstall everything.

 

thank you!

 

Was wondering when "Gotcha" was gonna jump in this thread....This guy knows his big block Ford shit! I was there in the '70's on Van Nuys Blvd...You should call him like he said...

 

let us know how far off it is.

 

just for the heck of it put the number 1 pist on the exhaust stroke at tdc and check to see if overlap is split equally between int/exh valves and that balancer is at tdc. in other words int valve is open the same amount as exh is open. if they are or within a few degrees then the cam phasing/sprocket marks/keyways etc. are ok....check it out. use this method when there are no marks (been there).....good luck

 

Something else..
Make sure your intake gaskets seal good. Different expansion rates with aluminum and cast iron along with poor quality of gaskets (that I attribute to the absence of asbestos) lead to intake leaks.
I glue the gaskets to the heads with Gasgaginch, then temporarily install the intake with the bolts "snug" overnight. Then remove the intake and glue the intake side of the gaskets, lay down the end seals and torque the bolts.
After a few days of running, recheck the intake bolt torque.

Also, find #1 TDC with a dial indicator and mark your balancer before you bolt the heads back on, make sure you don't have too much lifter preload.

FYI, when the timing gear marks align, that's #1 TDC firing.

 

Did you install a high volume oil pump? I have seen too much oil pressure pump the lifters up and hold some valves open! Deen B.

 

With newer OT stuff I've seen it be off a tooth and dyno like 30 hp less all across the board.

 

DEEN!!

No its a stock pump, i know better than to use the high flow crap.

i really think either i got a shitty timing set or the cam is wrong.

its definately cam timing. im almost 100% of it.

i guess ill find out this week.

 

Another simple mistake I've made recently is putting the vacuum advance line on the intake manifold instead of off the carb, puts you at full advance as soon as she fires up and won't rev worth a shit...yet another lesson I learned with the Poncho motor...

 

I have read all 6 pages and might have missed. Did you do compression check? I would check that first. Low compression could be caused by cam in wrong. Cam timing lined up or both at 12 oclock makes no difference as long as distributor is in right. Turn crank one revolution and the marks will be lined up. NEVER ever seen any engine run 180 degrees off. I dont believe that. Have you tried setting timing till it spark knocks or kicks back while cranking. That usually is pretty close. How is the breaker plate in the distributor? Cant be any side to side play. One of my friends assembled a 390 last year for a friend who supplied his own hard ware store bolts. Car had low oil pressure and was ticking. Also smoking on right bank. Turns out bolt for rocker shaft over oiling hole was too long and spraying oil every where. Installed right bolt and now have oil pressure. Smoking was better but still there. Intake bolts were too long and sucking oil past manifold gaskets. Still had no power but guy would not leave it with me so I did not have much time to adjust it. He bought a NEW holley carb and that made it worse. Pulled the bowls and the bowls were delaminating and plugging jets. Holley said they had problem and sent new carb. In the mean time we tossed a carb I had that worked fine on it and set the timing. He was not happy still and kept F@cking with the timing. Called me one night and we went out to look at it and new Taylor wires were making light show like fourth of July. Second new set of wires ok. New carb came in and he puts it on and runs like shit again. Brings it over and I check and pull carb off. He as wrong carb spacer and it is leaking vacuum. I ordered him right spacer. He changes again an still leaking vacuum under carb. He is over tightening carb and bending mounting base. Finally install new gaskets and I set timing and carb and tell him to leave alone and now runs fine.

 

this engine is 100% new, .030 over new pistons and rings, less than 100 miles on it i bet, rebuilt by a very reputable builder and friend.

its not low compression.

 

low compression can be caused by lots of things,not just pistons and rings,if this was built by a good engine builder than how come hes not fixing it?

 

I guess that was the point I was making. This engine was all new with .030 over and hardened seats. The guy that assembled it has done many engines but owner insisted of "helping" and made every thing worse. If your cam is out than your compression can be off. If your push rods are too long your valves wont close. Isnt a compression test easier than pulling your engine?

 

He might have known his shit but I smell some too......I love how he played "Carnac the Magnificent" on the carb jetting. You can't tune a motor from your computer desk any better than you can throw the winning touchdown pass from your armchair on Sunday.

-Bigchief.

 

Yes, please slowly and systematically verify firing order. I had two swapped on my 390 and it ran, but ran like crap until I corrected it.

Once you're sure of that, try narrowing your spark gap down to something like 20 or 25 and see if that gives you more timing flexibility. If that works, here's the theory... If your wires have weak insulation, as you advance before TDC, the pressure in the cylinder increases and so dows the insulation of the spark gap. The current picks the path of least resistamce, and that may be the wire insulation instead of the spark gap. If the gap is narrower, then it's more likely to go there.

Of course the easier way is to look with the hood up at night and watch for arcing as you play with the timing.