The truth will set you free. Here is a link to a short article on Henry Ford and Vanadium steel. Please note the date when this Innovative Genius started using it. Those who speak ill of Mr. Ford have not studied their scriptures. http://henryfordtalk.com/article/henry-ford-innovator-extraordinaire
OK Steve,.... 4140 can get hard and brittle by heat treating and quenching, drawing down case hardening etc... All 4140 means is the Iron/Carbon content in the finished product. A plethora of Rockwell readings can come from 4140,.... And there is "Hot Roll, Cold Rolled, Cast and Forged 4140 !.. Do you know what steel was being produced at the Rouge ?..... If not, I suggest you research it !.... Old "Hank" couldn't get good enough steel to use for his cars, He was cheap, but smart. That's why he built the Rouge. And he never skimped on items of safety in fear of potential legal implications... Hanks suspension and ch***is steel was considered the standard of the industry. Little quiz.... Is the carbon to iron content in 4140 ,.... (A.) .32 to .40 (B.) .41 to .53 (C.) .38 to .43 After working with a metallurgist at a heat treat years ago I learned a thing or two,.... Also I wonder if you want to give us a definition of "Tool Steel" and all the steels that are encomp***ed in that term.
Quote from the above link......... Vanadium has the most significant strengthening effect of any alloying element used in steel. It does not make steel lighter and it damn sure doesn't make it easier to machine. That article is just more typical internet blubbering from some **** who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. FWIW, 4140 is a low alloy steel and not a tool steel. Tool steels for the most part are designated by a letter and a number rather than a number alone like carbon and alloy steels. A, D, L, M, O, P, S, T, and W are the most common tools steel types.
Testing them would work. Axles and wishbones can be heat treated much like other things can be heated, some case hardening process soaked in carbon for 48 hours and tempered in case hardening situations. If you want to i don't see why it would be impossible to anneal them, rework them as you see fit and have them re-tempered to ford spec' if you wanted to go that far with them.
If an axle can twist that much (picture supplied by Harms Way), then it can't be too brittle. If I understand the points made here it is that the axle won't fail by shattering or breaking, but by deformation. It would seem then that not catastrophic failure is likely.
On the "not skimping" on safety items...some Ford parts, like steering arms, were 100% Brinnell tested before heading fro ***embly. On the pitman arms, you can usually find 2 dings, one at the opening for sector shaft, one along the arm itsely. Heat treatment and the following tempering to maintain proper malleability were closely controlled. And no one wants an excessively hard suspension or steering piece...everything is going to meet its match someday, something like a fire hydrant or a telephone pole, and when it does it is a lot less likely to kill you if it can bend rather than breaking. On the overall toughness...note that dropping an axle should pretty well kill all aspects of the original treatments at the most highly stressed part of the axle, but they STILL don't fail. Henry was a steel NUT and his steels and his ability to forge and cast were ahead of practically everyone else in the industry. Good readings: Ford textbooks "Shop Theory" (very easy to find) and "Metallurgy and Metallography", harder to find, explore interlibrary loan since most known copies are drifting around my house somewhere. These are mid level textbooks, not instruction sheets for building your own deuce from iron ore, but give a lot of insight into Henrythought.
In the Model T days Ford was known for using the best steel in the industry. Vanadium steel is not lighter than other steel but it is stronger, so you can use less steel to make a part equally strong. Looking at old pictures of Model Ts bumping and twisting over rough country you must be impressed by their strength and flexibility. Achieved by clever design and quality materials. The car looks skinny and flimsy but is remarkably tough. Using quality steel was a big part of Ford's success, in making the best car at the lowest cost, using the minimum of material.
Someone should pay attention to harm here. When you heat a piece of steel and then quench it in cold water it makes it brittle, even forged steel will get brittle when cooled too quickly. For an axle you don't want hard steel you want steel that will flex without loosing its shape. Henry's axles were not cold forged that was not a process that was popular yet. They went through hot then were smashed into shaped. Then they went to the cooling racks (I have seen the movies), getting an axle hot is not problem it is how it is treated after it is hot that becomes the problem. If the fire was hot enough to bring it up to glowing and then the fireman soaked it with cold water while it was still glowing then the axle may very well be brittle. The OP said that he had a very large press (tonnage not necessarily dimensional) I would think that pressing it back into shape cold would be a good test of the integrity of the axle. Maybe a serious magna-fluxing or sonic testing afterward to see if it cracked in the press would be a good idea. ===================================================== Edit damnit: Ok I am thinking that someone misunderstood something that I said about Ford building a vehicle as cheaply as possible. I never said that he skimped on his axle material in fact I said just the opposite. I don't know that anyone else said that he skimped either and being the one who said that he built a good product cheaply I am ***uming that the comments about him not cheaping out on axle steel are directed at my comment about building a good car cheaply (Ford's own words by the way). Anyway it is not a problem of how good the axle steel was when he built the axles it is the condition of the axle now isn't it.
Not long ago someone on the HAMB wanted a cheap '32 I beam or just the ends to make bookends, sounds like you have his axle. Bob
The Jalopy Journal
