Hot Rods Qucktime for 390 Cad.....anyone???

I think all of the engines used the same bolt pattern and automatic transmission didn't they? Look on Ebay and search for Quick Time and you will see a lot of them available.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_V8_engine

 

Just got my Cad engine parts back from machine shop. While doing mock up work with old block and crank + a WC Ford T5 I noticed that the input shaft of the T5 bottomed out in the back of the Cad crank. It was about .125 shy of sitting flush to the the bell. While I could have shortened the input shaft 1/8" I chose to machine the relief in the Cad crank so future trans changes would not be an issue. I am probably going to use a Tremec TKO 600 due to the torque potential of the Cad. I am working on the pilot bushing now , will post pics when I complete the mock up. EDIT, just a reminder...My engine is a 390 which has a different crank pilot area compared to 55-58 331s and 365s.

 

Some updates on QT bell set up. I took the flywheel down to the local clutch supply shop and it turns out you can use a GM 10.5 diaphram pressure plate or a 10' B&B pressure plate. I went with the GM pressure plate. The input collar on the T5 bottoms out in the clutch disc about .375 shy of the trans sitting flush to bell...I am going to shorten the collar and test fit everything with new bushing etc. Will post up pics when complete.

 

Hi Lumpy,
Doing the same down here,well trying to,thanks for your info.
You mention the 390 crank pilot area is different from the 365s, can you tell us the difference?
Cheers Chris

 

Actually Chris I can't give you first hand experience on 365 cranks... Only going on what I have read. I will post pics and measurements of the 390 crank pilot bushing area when I am done , which should be pretty quick. I can tell you that the machined surface of the 390 crank is 1.625 in diameter and .520 deep.

 

I just measured what I believe to be a 365 crank and came up with 1 5/8” dia x 9/16” deep.
Just with a vernier but pretty much the same as you got.
Chris

 

Check your PM's Chris.

 

Cheers

 

What automatic transmission do they use? If it's the same, then manual trans bellhousings should be the same.

 

If you just need the snout of the input shaft to NOT hit the crank, you can buy an extra pilot bushing and use it as a drill guide. It would be nice if you can find a similar pilot bushing with the same OD but a smaller ID. Install it and use it as a DRILL PILOT/GUIDE to drill the back of the crank. Then drill larger diameters till you get slightly larger than the snout diameter. What you need is clearance, not precision. Once it's large enough to clear diametrically and deep enough to clear longitudnally.......remove that pilot bushing and put the correct one in place. That way you don't have to remove the crank from the engine.
I suggest the multiple drill sizes because it may be difficult to drill the relief with one drill size.

 

I modified the crank I am going to use on a lathe. The Cad crank already has a drilled area in the back so it is easy to just drill it a bit deeper, I did this on the mock up with a hand drill, It was quite easy and could be done in the car. The area that needs to be deeper is not the machined area that retains the bushing.

 

The late 390 from mid 63 and the 429 use a 3spd TurboHydro, or what we call a Turbo 400. The early engines 62 and older used a 4spd Hydramatic. They are indeed different bellhousing patterns.

 

Stumbled across this a few minutes ago..... https://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Cadillac_engine_knowledge
Transmission bolt patterns
The ~1968-up 368, 425, 472, and 500 cid engines all use a "BOP" (Buick/Olds/Pontiac) bellhousing bolt pattern, so a TH350 or TH400 or "uni-bell" automatic will bolt right up to the back of the block as long as the proper Cadillac flexplate and torque converter are used.

The '56-'64 365/390/429 use a Cadillac-only "flat top" bolt pattern, which does not share dimensions with other GM bolt patterns. In 1965 most Cadillacs (there was a unique '64 carryover for '65 commercial cars) received a new "pad-mount" starter motor, which with two vertical bolts held the starter to a cast block pad. Previous design was a "flange mount" starter which bolted to the bell housing. In the case of the unique '64 with a factory installed engine-to-transmission adapter, the starter bolted to an adapter plate which was "sandwiched" between the block and an early Buick bolt-pattern TH-400. TH400 crankshafts use a flange and pilot which are not dimensionally the same as those of "Jetaway" crankshafts. .

 

Here is the pilot bushing I made up. The OD is 1.627 and the ID is .670 the forward step is just there for added support for the input shaft. The depth of the interference fit is .500
Here is the bushing barely started in the end of the crank. It will sit flush when it is installed.

 

Here is how I relieved the crank I am going to use in my engine. I did this at work on the lathe.
Here is the mock up crank. I relieved this with a hand drill just an 1/8" to clear the input shaft. I feel that this could easily be done in the car if you have to.

 

Here you can see how the input shaft collar interfered with the clutch disc. I had to shorten it 7/16"

Here you can see how far the transmission was from being flush.

 

Here the transmission is sitting flush after shortening the collar.

Here is the complete clutch installed with the throw out bearing.

 

Here is the GM 10.5" diaphragm pressure plate, the fly wheel is also drilled for a 10" B&B pressure plate.

If you decide to run a cable clutch, AKA 5.0 Mustang this is the hole for the clutch cable. But it does take standard clutch linkage if so desired.

 

Here are the Crower fly wheel bolts that are 1.125" long.

 

Hope this helps you guys cause the QT intructions are useless...

 

Great info Lumpy, thanks for the pics and passing on the knowledge

 

Cheers Lumpy,
Great info and pictures,
Couple of questions, could you possibly tell us the overall length of the bellhousing, gearbox face to block face,also the thickness of the starter plate,
Are the bellhousing /starter plate mount holes in the same position as the original cad starter mounts? : could an original starter be used?
No rush mate,when you get a chance,
Cheers
Chris

 

Hey Chris , the starter is in a different location as the wilcap flywheel is quite a bit smaller in diameter than the Cad ring gear, so no you cannot use the cad starter. I will get the measurements you requested this weekend when I break down the mock up

 

Thanks,
That’s a bugger as I used the original Cad ring gear on the flywheel I made.I thought that was a clever move at the time. Now I’m wondering if the original flywheel OD will fit in the Q/time bellhousing?
I may be lucky and possibly be able to shift one of the holes out slightly ,tipping the starter out to reposition it.
The starters you are using would be like rockinghorse shit to find down here plus I’d need to replace the flywheel.
We’ll see,

 

No Mopars down under Chris? The good news is the bell appears to have room for a bigger wheel.

 

Awesome dude. At the speed I am progressing, I will need this tutorial to remember how it was done.

 

Did I miss the input shaft diameter?

 

.670 Root. Might be one under your Christmas tree , if your real good

 

Great news about the room in there, and yes,there are Mopars down here but finding parts for the models like Rams and the others mentioned are few and far between. Mopar 318s are around for sure but in the much older models,I don’t know if they would be the same.
Cheers

 

The starter from the older 318 will work I believe Chris ...In the research I did it seems Mopar starters are really interchangeable , from the 60s to the 2000s but i'm hoping some Mopar Guru's can chime in...