Question about the 700R4 transmission???

At that weight and speed you will never see an issue running it not locked up. When you get in trouble is when you use the trans in a pick up towing a trailer on a grade or at high speed (i.e. 1/2 ton truck towing a 24' box trailer on a slight hill ay 70+ mph for a few miles) and the converter is working pretty hard. It is shearing fluid when the clutch is not locked up and that shearing is what creates the heat. "Power braking" is an example of when you make a lot of converter heat. Holding the brakes tight and flooring the throttle the converter is absorbing all of the engine energy and you will heat the fluid very fast. Heavy load and a lot of throttle without the converter locked up makes heat. If you can apply the converter clutch it is just like a manual trans and no more heat. Without the torque converter, the gearbox itself doesn't make any more heat than a manual trans.

 

Just to be sure..... the 4L60/E will work for mock up? I have access to a free one out of an 94' GMC truck.

 

Yes...the 700R4, 4L60 ('93), and 4L60E are all identical, as far as the dimensions go.

 

for a 700r4 the last year (92) is what you want, i was told the sun star and sprag were stronger in the last year.. dunno if its true or not..

my transmission guy omitted the lockup in the transmission and he called the converter shop and ordered the converter ,so he made sure the converter place didnt get mixed up and give me the wrong converter... i just bolt the transmission in, no wires or switch to fiddle with..

its going in a T so its a very light vehicle and i'll add a small cooler on it also..

 

I'd still run the lockup in 4th gear. It will run cooler, and use less fuel. Fuel ain't free. If you wire it properly, there is no switch, it just locks up the converter in 4th, with no user input required.

 

Thanks gents. I'm getting for the mockup and will sell it to help get a 700r4. Forgive my lack of knowledge but can someone explain the lockup and also what a kickdown cable setup is. Thanks

 

Not to get technical on you but first off you have to get into the habit of not calling it a "kickdown" cable. Too many people call it that and think that like the old Chrysler trannys, they can control the shifting by tweeking it a bit. If you do this you will smoke the transmission quickly. It is a throttle control valve cable or T.V. cable. Its main purpose is to control line pressure. At wide open throttle line pressure is about 230-235 lbs. and the cable is at full extension. However at 230-235 lbs. line pressure at part throttle the clutches and internal parts are getting hammered. Therefore the T.V. cable, attached to a pressure regulated valve, regulates this line pressure for smoother shifts and transmission longivity. It is very critical that this cable be adjusted properly, there are many websites that go into great detail on this adjustment (Monster Transmission is just one) and it is more intimidating than it is hard.

As far as the 700R4 or 4L60 to choose: First off you only want a 30 spline input shaft unit used after '86 and can be found in many GM products. Secondly you should look for a "MD8" case or if you are running any kind of power you should opt for a "K" case These are easy to spot as these letters are cast in big letters on the belhousing of the tranny. The reason is that the "MD8" and "K" cases are heavier duty cases and won't be likely to warp like the weaker cases tend to do which leads to failure.

The lockup converter is not totally necessary but is a smart choice to go with. Trannys with a lockup converter will get better fuel economy and the tranny will last longer due to the tranny temperature running cooler when in lockup and heat is a trannys worst enemy. Another smart add on is an external tranny cooler, again not totally necessary but very helpful.

You may find some GM O.D. nay sayers out there but with the price of gas and the cost of building an engine these days it is a very viable option.

And to those nay sayers I say that I have been running and racing a 700R4 for quite a while now and I love it, have no regrets and won't look back (which is where my competition usually is). I currently run an Art Carr manual shift competition 700R4 transmission with a 9-1/2" converter in my 3268 lbs. Nova wagon. At 65 mph on the street I'm turning about 24-2600 rpm with 4:30 gears and a 29 inch tall tire. I get about 18 mpg!

 

If you just want to chuck one in there, '89 is about the last year with a cable speedometer drive. When set up right they'll take a lot of abuse, I beat the crap out of one towing things in an '89 Suburban and it still goes - the truck actually rotted out too badly to pass the annual inspection, first.

You can change the later ones back to the cable drive, it's just a pain in the ass -

 

This is a great site with alot of great TV cable info. It helped me set up mine. I will be using it again when I put in my 200r4 next month

 

Thanks again. Just trying to get as much info as I can so I don't have to backstep later. A free 4L60E is at my disposal so I wanted to make sure I can use it to mock up my truck so I can keep the progress going. The same friend will eventually come across a 700R4 for me but it might be tomorrow or a year from now. No idea. Not that I really need it at the moment if the 4L60E will work for my current needs.
I will also hopefully get the better 700R4 mentioned above although I'm not sure my engine will need it as it's only a 327. Maybe 300-320Hp. But if available I will shoot for it. I won't be towing with the truck. It's just gonna be my DD to get to work and back. It's a 46' International Harvester with a very long bed. 8 1/2 foot bed to be exact. Really long wheelbase. I just picked up a Ford Explorer 8.8 rearend with 3.73 gears and trac-Loc plus disc brakes. I'm hoping the 327/700R4/8.8 trio will make for a great runner both in town and on the freeway. if I get decent mileage, bonus ; )

 

The "MD8" case will work just fine in your application unless your future plans are to up the horsepower. A well built 700R4 with a "MD8" case can and should handle up to about 400 horse anymore and you'll be pushing it.

Not to confuse you anymore but they do make a 4L60 as well as the 4L60E. Both of these trannys are basicly veriations of the 700R4. The difference is the 4L60E is an electronicly controlled tranny, hence the "E" in 4L60E. You can electroniclly control the 4L60E with either push buttons or paddle shifters for a custom application. Or have it converted to "vacuum" by having an internal vacuum modulator installed which will eliminate the electronics. The vacuum modulator is designed is to regulate line pressure. At part throttle there is enough vacuum to lower line pressure but at wide open throttle vacuum drops to near zero which gives you full line pressure. Just more to think (or confuse you) about.

 

Great. Thanks. Now I'm all confused!!!
No, I'm trying to score a free one to help the project move along. Funds are very tight as I'm trying to battle through divorce and custody of my 2 sons. I don't want to see this become a project that never makes it to the road. This project started as a way to get my kids turning wrenches and get me a cool old beast to roar around town. I have a newer Dodge Ram quadcab truck. Very nice comfortable truck. I have a 97 C5 Corvette that I love. But they just don't cut it. It's the old sheet metal that excites me. Especially the old trucks that have been rodded out. I see a few around town and just love the look of them coming down the road. You spot them a mile away they are so different. I'm yet to see another International on the road so that makes me want to get mine cruising even more. I know it will turn heads even if it's just from curiosity.
My plan was just to mate a Turbo 350 to the 327 I have. I had no idea or knowledge of the 700R4. But as my reading and asking questions on sites like this progressed, it became obvious that I need an overdrive transmission to get the truck I'm after. But, we shall see if I end up with a good used 700R4. I may end up getting a free used one to help get the truck on the road and replace it with a fresh rebuilt one when needed. Thanks for all the help.

 

That should work out fine I am just giving you, as well as others, food for thought as well as something to consider for the future.
Good luck with your build!
Can't wait to see it!

 

PRO85FIERO gave you great advise on converting a 4L60E to a 4L60 (700-R4)...especially if you score the "E" model for free. Your friend that owns the tranny shop can do the switch-over for you, and you'll still be way ahead...$$$. I have an 86 Monte Carlo SS 200-4R in the car in my Avatar (blown Hemi), and it's the cat's ass...

 

if you intend to truly drive this car, install the 700r4. you will not regret it and your engine will love you for it.

 

I used a 700r4 in my 54 F250 for the last 4 years and about 15k. It worked ok but I hated the split between 2-3. I use my truck as a truck, hauling everything from 80# bags of concrete (never more than 24) to the boat and dirtbikes.

I just got done swapping in a NV4500. In a vintage truck, I think the overdrive is nearly useless. Between the load and the handling at speed, overdrive is a downhill only gear. Do not be afraid to tackle the rebuild yourself.

 

That 2-3 shift is why I went with the 200-4R in my 32. I put a 700-R4 in one of my OT cars, and I too didn't care for the 2-3...

 

I go 10.80 in the 1/4 mile with my 3268 lbs. Nova Wagon controlled by a 700R4. It doesn't seem like I have a 2-3 shift problem. Oh, and in case anyone was going to bring it up, I tow with it too! It might not be 5000 lbs. but I assure you that its at least 1500-1800 lbs. maybe a little bit more.

 

My question is what it will cost to have it converted over. Is it an expensive option?

 

I should have the 4L60E this weekend. My friend is pulling it out for me and is selling the truck to a pick-N-pull. Should I get the driveline as well? Anything else I could use from it?

 

One of the sources for the vacuum parts is Performabuilt out of Pennsylvania. I can't find their web address at the moment but you can "Google" their name to get to their site. I also cannot remember the owners name (due to sometimers or C.R.S.) but he is very helpful.

 

Think their site say it's a part mate by Transgo. Sounds like more work and $$$.
I'll use it for mockup and hope I run across a good 700R4. thanks for the help.

 

Should I stay away from an 84' 700R4 that was pulled from a Corvette? Seller had it rebuilt and it has about 20K on it.
He's gonna send me the #s stamped on the transmission but I'm not sure how to read them other than the year.

 

Being rebuilt, it could have had the upgrades installed and be a good choice. However, since you are not running any real high power through the trans, I think any 700R4 will work fine for you. Even an early one with the weaker 27 spline input shaft. If the one form the Corvette works good and you get the converter with it, for cheap price, go for it.

If it really bothers you using the earlier one, install it for now and keep looking for the better later model 88-89 version and swap them out.

 

I picked up a cheap 700R4 today. Finally. I ended up with the 27 spline version though : (
I read and read that only the 84-85 years had the 27 spline. And that the MD8 case is a good one. This is an 86 MD8 with 27 spline. No casting rainbow.
6YPM-Y-00098657-115C

I'll just use it for mock up I guess.