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Question for C9, 40Studedude and other storytellers

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Roothawg, Dec 11, 2003.

  1. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 25,907

    Roothawg
    Member

    In one of my other posts, C9 commented that the way to tell that you had a good story was that the reader was longing for more.

    What type of things are included in a good story?
    I have never really had any formal writing training but, I am sure there are certain elements that are a standard rule of thumb.

    Can you kinda school me on the things that make you cringe when reading a bad story?

    Also what are the things that draw you into a good story?
     
  2. Fat Hack
    Joined: Nov 30, 2002
    Posts: 7,709

    Fat Hack
    Member
    from Detroit

    You want to avoid cliche' phrases and "cop-out" scenarios such as "and a good time was had by all" or "then I woke up and it was all a dream"! Things like that would get you FLAMED in the Creative Writing courses I've taken!

    Short stories are the easiest to write, but they also present a challenge in that you have to address character introduction, opening incident, rising action, climax and falling action or epilouge in a relatively concise fashion.

    You want to "hook" the reader with the first few lines. Make them interesting or you will lose your reader quickly. Introduce the setting (time, place, etc) and the primary character(s) within the first one or two paragraphs, and move the story along swiftly without excessive narration or descriptive drivel.

    For what you're looking to accomplish HERE, in a message board format, the above tips will help you out some. If expanding on your work to produce a written manuscript, you will likely wish to fill in setting, character development, descriptions, and narratives a little more. Make an outline, either on paper or in your head (as I do) and organize your events into the most fluid order, and insert your dialouges, adjectives and action where needed to tell the story without rambling.

    Hope it helps!


     
  3. [ QUOTE ]

    Can you kinda school me on the things that make you cringe when reading a bad story?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Bad spell; ing and inpr,pore punkt-u- ashun><?



    The good stuff?

    When the story is believable to the point that I can pull from my own personal experience and feel as if I was there.

    An English professor once told me that the purpose of a story is very basic, you tell the story to evoke emotion. That emotion, wether it be good or bad, is up to the author and the audience.

    He then said the rule to follow is, "Know your audience".

    Your story made me imagine in my head a hot rod punk getting spanked by an old graybeard. Cool for me because I'm in transition between the two. Some of the old timers here may have liked your story because the graybeard did some spanking. Cool for he younger bunch because it had two hot cars racing. We all have one thing in common, a sometimes deranged passion for cars. You hit that common thread and had enough details to make things appear in peoples heads.

    You took an abstract subject (your memory/imagination) and converted it to a concrete subject (Text) and gave it to us (your audience) We, the audience, then converted it into something abstract( our own imagination/memories). That equals a good story in my book. If anyone of those three things are missing then the cycle is not complete. Think about it!

    Tell your same exact story to a bunch of tree huggers that want all cars to be hydrogen hybrids and you will not get the warm fuzzy feelings you have now. They will not see it the same and therefore consider it a bad story. The Irony is that you did the abstract-concrete-abstract thing in their head also but they drew from a different knowledge/personal experienc pool and came to a different conclusion. Still a good story (all 3 requirements met) but evoked a different emotion.

    Dude you got a flair that appeals to this audience. Stick with it man! [​IMG] You have a natural ability that sounds like you just started to tap and a few life experiences that need to be shared!!!!
     
  4. Everything that FatHack mentioned applies BIG TIME! Hook and FLOW with with a reflective overview at the end are extremely important concepts. I hate jump around stories/movies [​IMG].
     
  5. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 25,907

    Roothawg
    Member

    Can you have too many adjectives in a story? Overtell the surroundings? That is what I worry about.
     
  6. kritz
    Joined: Aug 6, 2003
    Posts: 553

    kritz
    Member
    from flint, mi

    just write some more stories for us to read....seems like you have a pretty good knack for it already!!!
     
  7. [ QUOTE ]
    Can you have too many adjectives in a story? Overtell the surroundings? That is what I worry about.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Hell yes!

    The crystal clear blue sky went on for miles with a few cotton-like puffy clouds floating by like pillows in an ocean without waves. The time moved so quickly she had not noticed that the sun was setting over the green mountains of pine trees that lay ahead in the distance. The scent of the pine wafted through the air as she watched the sun set lower and lower with each passing minute. The blue sky slowly changed to a lovely orange with streaks of violet and the peircing yellow sun cooled down to a shade of orange that could not be described with words. She turned back to see her friend, her companion, sitting in silence with a puddle forming under her. The colors of the puddle told a story, she was wounded. The puddle grew in size as each moment went by. The liquid , bright red and flowing freely made it's own path. How long would it be? How long before someone came along and helped her? She thought about all the memories she shared with her old trusty pal. They had never let each other down over the years. The fun that they had shared had gone on for so long that she couldn't remember a time when they were not together. The fun was over now. Anger and rage set in. Her blood boiled. Why? Why did it have to end this way? If she could have taken it all back she would have. But no she had to fix that tranny line with a hose and two hose clamps. Now she was paying the price for doing such a hack repair.

    See...way to much descrption... [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  8. Fat Hack
    Joined: Nov 30, 2002
    Posts: 7,709

    Fat Hack
    Member
    from Detroit

    I 'spose ya want a SAMPLE, eh??? [​IMG]

    Read on:


    Being seventeen years old often gives one a feeling of supreme invulnerability, and I was no exception to this unwritten rule. Behind the wheel of my bone-rattling 1970 Chevelle I felt unbeatable, and often looked for chances to prove it to any who cared to accept the challenge. Many a stoplight shoot-out was won by sheer nerves of steel wrangling 402 cubic inches of unmuffled fury through four gears of terror...and by blind dumb luck or happenstance, I survived these careless exploits into tripple digit speeds on public roadways in tact!

    Alas, every warrior has a chink in his armor, a weak link in their steel chain of imortality, and the promise of eventual defeat at the hands of fate, though. Nobody lives forever, and no gladiator is ever truly invincible. You may win the battle, yet still lose the war, as they say!

    The Final Battle for me and my trusty metallic green steed came one chilly Fall night on a strip of Telegraph Road starting just south of Michigan Avenue and ending in a parking lot at Cherry Hill Road. The duration of the battle was but maybe a handfull of seconds, but the intensity of it brought time to a crawl as two fearless rivals squared off against each other in an impromptu contest of speed and Glory! Pedal to the floor...nothing held back...playing for all the chips, Baby!

    He came up along side me and gunned his engine as we slowed for the red light near the Danny's Supermarket. The road was lightly traveled that night, yet not entirely deserted. To the eyes of a young gearhead, it was the perfect setting in which to add another notch to the butt of my big block weapon. I returned the challenge with a quick rap from the open headers of my own mount, and met his gaze as we came to a stop.

    A veteran street warrior knows that he has but scant seconds to size up his opponent and make the judgement call. Do you go balls out against what is likely to be a tough competitor, or do you hold back a little on what could be an easy kill...and just use enough muscle to put him in his place? These are the questions I tried to answer as I ran my eyes over his gleaming red 1969 Mustang.

    It was a Mach I, the reflective gold stripe glistening down it's flanks and the blacked out hood covering any one of several powerplant options available that year. My focus fell to the emblem on the scoop...and the chrome lettering spelled out bad news for the home team..."428 Cobrajet". This would be no pussy-foot fluff dance...we were going to have to do the full Macho Mambo to settle this score. I was ready.

    Seeing the amber light come on for traffic headed into that secondary intersection from the sidestreet, we both raised the revs and prepared to pull the trigger. At the first flash of green, my foot went to the floor and I snapped the clutch out hard. The banshee scream of a big block Chevy awakened to battle split the night as spinning tires fought for traction. All hands on deck, folks...this is NOT a drill!

    The Sun tach was the sole gauge illuminated within my view. I had been born into the world of screaming small blocks and I had been treating this new car to the same stratospheric explorations that had served me well with shorter strokes and smaller bores. It had always held and come back for more. 7500 rpm. The pitch had risen to a deafening wail as I slammed the Vertical Gate shifter into the second gear position. From the corner of my eye...I could still see the Mustang on my right. Toe to toe and gettin' it on...no easy match, indeed!

    The light at Oxford was approaching quickly and still red. I was topping second gear...planning to short-shift into third at 6500 to try and pull it out on this guy with a little deft strategy and put him down before the full fifteen rounds. He never waivered or lifted, so I can only assume that he had scanned both sides of the intersection for headlight beams as I had and found none. No guts, no glory...ain't no bragging rights for second place. All or nothing, Mister...let's see what ya got!

    Third gear found us still accelerating hard with neither one gaining an inch on the other. The red light at Oxford flashed overhead as we screamed towards the Michigan Avenue overpass. The road took a very gradual curve here...the kind you don't really notice at 45mph on a sunny afternoon with Dire Straits on the radio (hey, this WAS 1985, after all!). We took the curve fearlessly...surely both praying that we'd not encounter any tail lights or traffic comming down the ramp from Michiagn and into the path of our speeding steeds.

    Fourth gear brought no advantage...the speeds climbed and the revs hit the 7500 mark. More? Could this thing handle any more? Could I? Could HE? 7800...7900...8000. The tach needle climbing at a steady rate but the pulse-pounding, slow motion adreniline rush allowed me to count each notch as it clicked off...one rung higher...one tick closer to sure disaster.

    The noise was beyond what could be considered as even audible...it was just an ear-shattering howl that enveloped us both and drilled into our consciousness like a white hot ice pick...the car floating and dancing at speeds I had never pushed it to before. Death grip on the wheel...the world a blur with the red shape of a what I knew to be a Mustang right next to me.

    Hours seemed to pass in those few short ticks of the clock. All concept of time and space had become irrelevant...academic ponderings for some safe, warm classroom in a far off plane...seemingly a full universe away from what was going on at this very instant. Cause and effect? The consequences of tempting fate just once too often? These abstract notions failed to register either. There was just the noise, fury, speed and Glory.

    Finally...at long last, my eye caught the image of the red car as it fell back. Not much...but enough. He had lifted, and that's all that mattered. I went for the brake pedal, only then aware that I had not taken a breath since we left the light.

    The air surged in and out in ragged gasps as I pumped and prodded the pedal, working the Chevy back down to a safe and prudent speed...collecting my thoughts and feeling the cold chill of a feverish sweat despite the lack of a heater on what had been a very cool night just seconds before. I had done it. I had held my ground and survived to tell the tale! Hitting the turn-around in the island between the north and southbound lanes of traffic, I exhaled with a sigh of joy and relief. It was over.

    Easing the car around to the curb lane headed southbound, I was aware of the Mustang following closely behind. The battle was over, and what had been my most worthy challenger yet was now but a curious fellow warrior, anxious to meet and greet...and to take a peek under the hood perhaps. The pecking order established...the ritual was drawing to it's close...the solemn exchange of verbal pleasantries over the backdrop of opened hoods and cooling metal. We owed each other that much. I steered for the empty church parking lot.

    The 402 Chevrolet engine came to an idle as I brought it to a stop. There was the familiar, ragged lope of the exhaust being spit out through 3" collectors and nothing more...but there was something else. Above the rumbling drone of the exhaust, there was a new sound...ever so slight, but growing more distinct. A metallic tap growing into a rythmic clank of metal on metal. The Death Rattle.

    "I'll be fucked!", the stranger exclaimed as he opened his door and swung out to stroll over to where my car sat idling with that tell-tale clattering becoming more and more obvious by the second. "What the Hell have you GOT in this thing?", he barked, seemingly unaware of the clattering from within the heart of my once impervious ride.

    Shaking myself out of my stupor...the combined cloak of fear, guilt and disbelief, I turned the key and killed the engine. Maybe for the final time? Turning to face the stranger as I slowly climbed out, I started in with the basic speech. "Just a 402 with a cam, intake, headers and a small gear out back."

    "What gear?", the man asked as he turned to face me for the first time as not an adversary, but as an interested rival and fellow street racer.

    "3.90", I said absently as I pulled the hood pins and worked the latch.

    The stranger was at my side, peering down on the red big block Chevy with the finned valve covers, Hooker headers, Holley Strip Dominator intake, 780cfm carb, HEI distributor and Moroso cool can. "Sure do rev for a Rat Motor.", he said as he continued to measure what he was seeing. "Never heard one wind like THAT!", he tacked on for emphasis.

    I let out a slight chuckle, despite my ever expanding worries about what damage I had done to my ride. "Yeah, me neither...but I think I pushed it just a bit too far this time.", I stated as I rubbed the back of my neck...shaking off what would probably be a real whopper of a headache in the approaching hours.

    "Heard that.", the man said quickly. "Spun a rod bearing most likely...from the sound of it." Truly a man of few words, but sharp and observant, none the less!

    He was older than I. Lean and tough looking in his black leather and dark jeans. He wore a button-up casual dress shirt and his tanned face and swept back dishwater blonde hair had just begun to thin at the forehead. Narrow, knowing eyes worked their way over the details exposed to him in the confines of my engine compartment. I guessed him to be maybe 40 or so.

    "So, what do you got in THERE?",I asked, nodding towards his car to break the silence.

    "Oh, not much. Just a warmed-over 428. Got headers and a crossover...run through the mufflers. Four speed. 4.11 gear. Ran outta gear. Backed it down." He spoke in short, abrupt sentence fragments that got the point across with no embellishment. Just the facts. He was letting me know that he let off to save his engine...not to admit defeat.

    With a quick glance around, he shot me a half smile and called out, "Well, nice to know ya! Gotta get goin'...but I'll make sure you get 'er started okay."

    Soon, I had coaxed my Chevelle back to life...half hoping that the clattering noise would be gone somehow...as if the engine had magically healed itself as we talked briefly in the aftermath of our hard fought battle. No such luck, it was still there...but I'd make it home okay.

    "Never lost to a Shivvy before," the man called out as he circled around to exit the lot with his window across from mine. "...shame ya had ta blow 'er up ta do it!". With a full grin and a roar of screeching tires, he was off into the night. I drove home slowly...knowing the battle had been won, but a price had been paid. It would also mark the last time that I would engage in such a recklessly foolish street race...blowing red lights and pushing the needle to the red. I'd go fast again...but never like that. The battle over...the victor...ruined? Was there satisfaction or closure? COULD there ever be? My mind worked on that puzzle as I drifted homeward.

    Epilouge...

    Two years later, with the Chevelle listed in a local classified paper under "Cars FOR SALE", I was in the driveway turning wrenches and a far less brutal Chevrolet. A six cylinder Nova that got me to work and back faithfully day in and day out. I was changing the oil and going over the basics...waithing for the caller on the phone to show up and look at the car with the empty engine bay where a wounded 402 had been pulled some time ago.

    I had decided to move on. I built cars more for cruising than for street racing, although I was soon to discover Bracket Racing and spend many days and evenings at local tracks with a tight circle of friends who also built their cars, drove them to the track, and raced them as much against the clock as each other. It offered the chance to compete in contests of speed in a more controlled environment.

    As I slid under the Nova to screw the oil filter into place, I heard the rumble of a moderately cammed V8 at the bottom of the driveway. Seconds later, the engine was cut, and a door was opened. I turned on my side to see black boots strolling towards my car as I slid out to stand up, brush off and greet the prospective buyer.

    "Save your sales pitch, Kid!", the man quipped as he stood before me with a reckless smile and hard eyes gleaming behind his aviator style sunglasses. "I just came to check on hunch...to see if it was really the same car." Behind him, I could see the gleaming red Mach I parked in my driveway near the street. "You really ain't gonna fix the old heap and maybe offer me a re-match?", he asked with that grin held steady.

    I extended my hand and he shook it politely. "No, I don't do that sort of thing anymore!", I answered...trying my best to sound sure and confident, rather than maybe scared and broken. I don't know if I pulled it off or not.

    "Yeah, life moves on for some folks.", the man said. "Things come and go, and the order of importance gets shuffled around. You make your best call, and you do what you gotta. That's how it usually works."

    We stood and talked cars and stuff for awhile. He showed me what changes he had made since our last encounter, and I told him how I had planned to maybe try my hand at building 4x4s for awhile. It was a pleasant chat, and he soon shook my hand once more and was gone. I walked back to my Nova feeling sure of myself all at once. I had chosen a path, and he had stayed on his. Where there were two street racers, there now stood a changed kid who would go on to venture into different automotive realms, and the hardened Hero who would go on racing for the Glory...choosing battles and waging War. All for the Glory.




     
  9. Hack...man...I couldn't find the standing ovation Icon?!

    I got fucking nose prints on my monitor you ass. I think I need to use my huffer now...

    Running a BBC chevy up that high? I knew it was gonna go...but was also waiting for gumballs in the rearview, a little ol lady, a high side swerve or some twist.

    Killer story... should we say that it evoked an emotion/memory?

    Mine was a '71 Monte Carlo with a 454 that twisted a driveshaft, ripped out a control arm and wiped out a Moroso Brute strength 12 bolt posi launching on a fresh concrete road against a Big Block 'vette. He won that time but later melted the 'vette down on the top end of a highway race!

    Mr. 'vette guy and I have sorta mellowed out...sorta [​IMG]
     
  10. Interesting question and one that’s gonna take more than a few words to answer.

    Keep in mind that I’m not a pro at this, having no formal training in journalism and the like. I just started writing one day and it hasn’t stopped yet.

    One of the biggest things in my favor is that I read a lot. A whole lot. Reading allows you to see how a story is constructed, how the words flow and once you get interested in writing, you’ll pay attention to how the article/book is formatted.

    The way I understand it, stories and books have a
    beginning where the location and characters are introduced, a minor conflict, then resolution, major conflict, then resolution again and a bit of wrapping up the loose ends as the characters ride off into the sunset. Not always with a happy ending, but readers prefer happy endings.

    Not sure who made those rules, but they seem to hold true. And like rules everywhere, rules - especially in writing - are made to be broken. Trick is to not break the rules in an obvious way.

    When you write you’ll find the very best writing is when you wear your heart on your sleeve. Opening yourself up to the world so that others can see who you really are. If you don’t write this way, then - to me at least - your writing will not ring true and some aspects of it will seem artificial. So far, you seem to be holding true to your own self and the stories come through entirely believable. Do not fall into the trap of having the main protagonist (the hero) be a superman with perhaps unbelievable skills and techniques. Real people have skills in a particular area and their friends and acquaintances have skills in other areas. Nothing drives me crazier than to read a racing oriented story and the hero can - apparently - dial up a couple hundred horsepower with the twist of a screwdriver. We all know that one’s not true. Showing some limitations and lack of knowledge in the main protagonist makes him/her a more believable character. Believable in a fiction book anyway. Non-fiction, not completely necessary as the story line in non-fiction is more important than the character. Sometimes it helps to see the hero learning as he goes along and in that way the reader can be educated as well.

    One of the most important parts of story or book is the timeline. Not the era, but having one part of the story flow into the next in a smooth and proper order. Easier than you think to screw up here, especially so in a book.

    Outlines can be important. Some folks completely outline a story or book and others simply wing it. I’m one of the ones who writes without an outline cuz I like to have the story develop in my head as I’m going along. I do know where the story is going, but don’t always know the way to get there. This, to me is what makes writing fiction more interesting than reading it. The characters come to life in your mind and for the most part they tell you where the story is going, what they want to be like and how they’re gonna do things. You can keep them fairly close to what you intended them to be, but most times they go their own way and your best bet is to simply follow. One small example for me was starting a book with a girl as the main protagonist. She was going to be lighthearted, free and with the soul of a Gypsy, but it wasn’t very long until she told me she was going to be a little more serious about things and be responsible about things and only have a couple of areas where she was less than - shall we say? - law-abiding. In the end she turned into one of the most interesting characters I’ve done so far.

    Somewhere in there, whether you write from an outline or not, you’ll find that the story has developed fully, but you’ll still need a basic outline to refer to. Said outline can be written quite a ways into the book and used more for reference than a guide.

    Other things you want to watch out for - not too much of a problem in a short story - is starting a scene one way and having it end in another which leaves the reader saying, “Huh?.” A small example I did in one book was having the characters leave in one car and arriving in another. I didn’t catch that until the first rewrite.

    I don’t know how much you know about left brain/right brain stuff, but the right side is the artistic side and the left side the logical side. (Hope I remembered that correctly.) Once the story starts flowing you’ll be operating from the artistic side of your mind and once you really get into it, it’s like watching someone else write the book. This happened to me very strongly with the ‘Pinky’ book. It’s all about the muse as artists and writers like to put it, but it’s a strange experience the first time it happens. It happens too, whether we’re writing, painting or fabbing an interesting part. Art is everywhere and the mediums are many. As a small fwiw, the “Pinky” book - at 536 pages - was written in seven weeks. And then rewritten more than a few times over the course of a year.

    After you’ve written the story or book - and this is one of the biggest secrets about writing - set it aside for a day or two and perhaps even a couple of weeks before you go back to it. Short stories can be edited/rewritten the next day, but books should sit for a couple of weeks at a minimum before you return to them. What it’s all about is, since you’re doing the rewriting and editing you’ll be seeing a somewhat familiar story with fresh eyes and the poorly written areas as well as glaring mistakes will stand out better. Fwiw, books and short stories as well go through several rewrites and then a final polishing. How many rewrites you ask? As many as are necessary. Even after publication or posting, I guarantee you’ll find some areas you wish you’d done a little different.

    Make a point too, to consult with experts on points you’re not sure of. The expert can be no further away than the girl sitting across the breakfast table from you. When I wrote Pinky, I bounced a lot of questions and ideas off Sweetie - my wife. She was an invaluable asset to some of the questions I had about, “would a girl wear this, say this or even think this.” Whether writing about girls or cars or whatever, you owe it to the reader to get it right. And perhaps this is where the old saying of, “write what you know” came about. If you write about racing and hot rods and considering your background, then you are the expert and are writing what you know.

    Research your subject as well. The Internet is an invaluable reference for a fiction writer and it doesn’t hurt to have a few reference books on hand. You can write about things you have a limited knowledge about, but it’s best to write it with the character having an outsiders view. An outsider who knows a bit about a subject and freely admits it, but leaves it to the other character/s to be expert in, is much more believable than a know-it-all. You need to strike a balance though. Too much on the technical side of a subject will leave most readers on the outside when you’re trying to draw them into a story. Once you create the realization that you do know about a particular subject then it’s enough to create allusions about that subject and let the reader do a little deciding and thinking for themselves. Readers are smart and you can depend on them to understand once you’ve done your part about pushing them down a particular path.

    You need to decide too, on whether you’re going to tell the story from the first person or third person viewpoint. (There’s a second person viewpoint as well, but it’s seldom used and only by the most skilled writers.) First person has the story told from the protagonists viewpoint. Very much like you’ve done with the stories you’ve posted. Third person tells the story from a bit of an outside viewpoint and in fact is how most books/stories are written. Even so, first person really allows you to get into the mind of the person telling the story, seeing some of the thoughts and reflections going on that you don’t get with third person. First person, simply described is the view from behind the wheel. To me, it draws the reader in and allows him/her to be the person telling the story and to live the story vicariously. Which, I think, is pretty much what reading is all about. If you, as a reader, can’t enter the story, but just stand on the sidelines watching, it’s not near as much fun.

    Learn how paragraphs et al work in books. Formatting for a story posting to an Internet board has different requirements than does formatting for a book.

    I’m not gonna get into an English lesson here, but will point out that a new paragraph begins when the topic changes. When the scene changes, not only does the paragraph change, but there’s a blank line under the preceding paragraph so as to indicate a scene change.

    The simple rule about dialogue is when a new person is speaking, a new paragraph and new set of quotation marks are called for. A lot of books run dialogue by two characters together on the same line, but that’s a page saving device. It works well, but isn’t necessarily correct.

    Paragraphs in what we’ll call standard writing, stories, articles etc. have an indent. The rule used to be five spaces, but with the advent of computer word processing programs two or three spaces will suffice.

    Formatting for a Net posting will require a blank line to designate a new paragraph. For some reason bulletin boards similar to the HAMB will not accept the paragraph indent so the generally accepted break for a paragraph is the blank line. For a change of scene a double blank line works well. Get used to indenting your paragraphs when you write. Once the rewrite is done for a short story you’re gonna post it’s quick and easy to go back and drop all the paragraphs down a line. May as well get used to what you’ll need to do now rather than go back and try to break a bad habit. Pertains to publishing, granted and you may be doing it now, but I thought I’d point it out. Having two separate files on a particular story helps. One as it should be written, paragraph indents et al and one for the HAMB.

    The above, a lot of stuff I know, but you’ll find it useful I think.


    “Things that make me cringe when reading a story.” Said story not always being bad, but the cringe factor can be there. I don’t think I’m alone either.
    In no particular order:
    Bad spelling.
    Bad punctuation or the lack thereof.
    Mis-use of words - their for there as one example.
    Use of the same word either too close together or used too many times.
    Over-use of a saying, whether an old and easily recognizable saying or one you use a lot.
    Story lines where the hero always wins. It doesn’t work that way in real life and for me it makes a story/book less than believable.
    Heroes who know everything and are all-conquering. Real people - as noted above - have particular skills. Some have more than a few, but no one has it all. One of the very best examples of real people with particular and individual skills was in the book, “Monte Walsh.” A book about life in the west and the cowboys within were more than real. One was a good roper. One was a great bronc-buster. One was a helluva shot. And so on. It made for a very real book and one that’s stood the test of time.
    A lack of decency in a scene. Kinda hard to describe this one, but one that can make the reader embarrassed to even read it. Decency doesn’t allude to the sexual factor either. Sex in a book/story can be very tastefully done and even better are allusions. Let the reader use their imagination to see what happened. That seems to work better than describing the mechanics of the act.
    A lack of expertise in what the writer is writing about or at the very least, an obvious lack of research.


    There are writers out there, most times new ones, who think that all they have to do is knock out a book/story and the editor is going to clean up the misspellings and bad grammar. Perhaps true in times past and then only with the best known authors - who, generally speaking were very skilled in the use of the English language. The simple facts are, you need to present your writing with excellent spelling, good punctuation and a well-woven story. Editors will fix a few things, but for the most part only the typo’s. Typo’s defined as something you know how to do correctly, but rolled it off the keyboard onto the text of the document and went on your merry way.

    What draws me into a story is the same thing that draws us all into a story. Curiosity. As simple as that. Get a reader curious and they will keep turning pages until the end of the story.


    I don’t want this little missive to be construed as my desire to see nothing but absolutely perfect writing on the HAMB. If that was true, none of us would be posting. What’s written here is my take on writing and you need to remember it’s from an amateur unschooled in the art of writing, but one who writes anyway. More for me than for you, but if you like it you may as well come along for the ride.


    Lastly, I’m going to recommend a few books about writing as well as a few books you should have on hand for writing research. Research in the vein of writing and not other subjects.

    It goes without saying that you need a good dictionary and thesaurus. I have one of the big thick and heavy Webster’s, but it’s in the bookcase. On my writing desk - actually a few feet up as I have a bookcase behind the computer - is a matched set of The American Heritage College dictionary and a Rogets’s ll (2) thesaurus. I use these more than anything else.

    A small book titled “Grammar Without Grief”, available at most any bookstore. Got mine at Borders. Skim it when you get it and then refer to it often. It’s quick and easy to find the answer to a particular question about writing.

    A couple of nice editions if you get into writing books, but a good add-on for short stories:
    “Self Editing for Fiction Writers” by Browne &amp; King.
    “The Elements of Style” by Strunk and White.
    Other similar books are good to have, but not a necessity.

    One of the very best books you can get on writing is Stephen King’s book titled “On Writing.” The first half about his life and career and it is interesting. The second half about writing, how to do it and how it works. What makes this book so good is that it’s not a how-to-do-it, but a nuts and bolts approach to writing. If you buy no other book - besides the dictionary and thesaurus, buy the Stephen King book.

    I’d say as well, skip the how-to-do-it books on writing. Get tangled up too strong with these and your writing will look like all the rest. What I see with you is an already developed ‘voice’ as a writer that has individualism and needs nothing more than some polishing and practice. Many authors go a long time, if ever, before they develop a ‘voice.’ If you want a good example of voice, refer to AV8's very good writing. If he posted without using his name, more than likely you’d realize who it was.

    Probably more here than you wanted to know, but I had a little time this morning so there ya go.

    The very biggest thing to keep in mind is, writers are artists. Art in a different medium from the accepted art of painters and sculptors, granted, but art nevertheless.

    Artists create, Critics don’t....


     
  11. Kilroy
    Joined: Aug 2, 2001
    Posts: 3,232

    Kilroy
    Member
    from Orange, Ca

    I have a degree in creative writing and have written quite a few book reviews and can tell you what I learned.[​IMG] The “Rules” are basic; it’s how you adapt your voice to those basic rules that makes your stories complex.

    You have to develop your own voice. Take Germ's writings as an extreme example. You have to get comfortable with your role as an author. Don't try to write like anyone else (and don’t try to write unlike everybody else either), just write the story how you can and how you would enjoy reading it. But along with that you have to understand who is reading it.

    Know the format of your story. You can’t write the first paragraph of a short story the same way you would in a novel. Ideally you want to grab your audience from the first paragraph no matter what you write but you have more time to develop your characters in a novel.

    Establish the conflict (Every story has some form of conflict/resolution that establishes the tension/purpose of the story) of the story immediately. It doesn’t matter if it’s fiction or non-fiction or what genre the story falls into, you need to grab your audience’s attention immediately if you want them to read your story. You’re not writing in a journal so you can’t be all artistic-elitist and refuse to give your audience what they need to get involved in the story.

    And lastly, a story is never “Finished” it just reaches a point where rewriting will have diminished returns. Just write and write and rewrite your stories until they fit you like the seat of your favorite hot rod. Then they are, while not perfect (Just like the Hot Rod), at a level of completion that adequately portrays to the audience the feeling you intended.

    I’d also like to address the idea of not using clichés in stories. If you look hard enough you can find a cliché in just about anything. Don’t worry so much about not having clichés in your stories. Every renowned writer does. They just incorporate them in interesting ways and that’s the trick. Don’t annoy your reader.
     
  12. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 25,907

    Roothawg
    Member

    Wow. Good stuff.
     
  13. fordiac
    Joined: Nov 27, 2001
    Posts: 424

    fordiac
    Member
    from Medina, Oh

    hack, that story ruled.
     
  14. Having penned a number of scripts, articles etc over the last decade, one thing to keep in mind is that stories aren't written but rather rewritten.
    I was a reader for a studio for quite awhile and everything mentioned here definitely applies but the main thing is to keep writing. Spelling and grammer can be fixed later. Just pound out the pages!
    If it sounds like crap, walk away from it for a few days. A fresh mind can work wonders on a lame idea.
    If you get real stuck, try changing location for your story, or one that really works for me is to change the protagonist(good) or antagonists(evil) gender. A bad guy becomes a bad girl! A nasty ass kicking bitch! Or even better, make your heavy a non human. Killer robot car, snow storm or even an evil computer. But never make your heavy TOO heavy. The story becomes too one sided then.
    Remember you need a being, a middle and an end.
    A defined moment opens it up. A reason to tell the story in the first place. This event will give your hero motivation and your story legs to push forward. This is where you either have a reader or not! Gotta get 'em in the first two pages.
    The "hook" in script writing is almost always an image. The bomb going off, the burgler creeping out the window. Think about your favorite movie and you will see it. Remember the opening in "The "Wild Bunch". Riding in to town and the ambush! The stage has now been set!
    The middle, the make or break point. Many new writers fail here because it takes long time to get through it. This is where the hero reveals him/herself and we learn more about the situation and the backstory. Try to avoid too many flashbacks unless flashbacks are key to your story.
    Several key elements occur here to push the story farther along. Where the suspence builds and the goal is becoming clearer. Near the end of the middle, the hero comes to a "do or die" scene. They must go forward to complete their goal or return to the normal life before. Be the hero or a failure. The choice is yours.
    The end is near. The showdown between protagonist and antagonist. The moment of truth.
    Not an ending where everything ties up but just something gives the reader something to think about and ask questions: What happened to him/her? Did they get away? Was there really ever any treasure? You get the idea...
    Even though I used movies to explain it, it can be applied to most forms of fictional writing.
    The last few things are:
    1- Don't be too clever. Believe it or not your reader likes to be ahead of the story by a few minutes. It makes them feel as if part of the story if they solve the murder or figure where the gold is BEFORE the hero. Sometimes you need to dumb it up abit.
    2 - Don't be too technical. Rattling off a receipe for the fastest flathead in the world is great for HAMBers but it becomes a snooze REAL quick to averge reader.
    3 - Write what you know! This one is more so for the beginers. How can someone write a story about a WW II tank crew unless you have a some first hand knowledge or have done loads of research.
    5 - Stories are about ordinary people in extraordinary circumstances.
    4 - Lastly, HAVE FUN!!! Write because you want to, not with dollar signs in your eyes. It will read like money was your goal not to tell a story.

    Hey there 40Studedude, how are you making out? Haven't heard from you for awhile.
    My tech contribution for the week!
    Todays program was brought to you by the letter "Q" and the number "9"... [​IMG]
     

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