Technical Question re rust in Flathead water jackets

Hello!

Having recently acquired my first early Ford based car since my Model A days in the 1970s, I subsequently picked up two 8BA flathead motors. One engine is now torn down and is awaiting inspection at the rebuilders. The second engine is an older Sears/Allstate rebuild which turns over, has minimal cylinder bore wear, a tight bottom end, little oil sludge, and no visible cracks to my amateur inspection. I would like to see if I can get it running without tearing it down further for a full rebuild.

My current concern is the substantial amount of rust in the water jackets. I can run the heads through my blast cabinet, but there is substantially more rust and scale in the block. I plan to pull the water pumps and blast it out with compressed air, but I prefer to stop short of hot tanking, acid dip, electrolysis or anything else that would require a complete tear down.

Does anyone have any further suggestions for water jacket rust and scale removal? Has anyone tried the EvapoRust/Metal Rescue/trisodium citrate type treatments?

Thank you in advance for sharing any successes or failures.

Barry in Ohio

 

Take a section of old speedometer cable or 1/4" wire cable and chuck it into an electric drill. Feed the cable down the water jacket holes and run the drill to break up the rust. Running the drill in reverse will help keep the cable from unwinding. If it's on an engine stand you can flip the block over and most of the***** should fall out. You could also blast it with air. This tip comes by way of Jim Brierley, and while he intended it for bangers, I did it on my 8ba as well.

 

I was in the same situation about 10 years ago with a '51 Mercury engine I bought 20 many years before. It had supposedly been a "good runner" when pulled. I stored the engine under the stairs in my shop for about 20 years, and finally decided to use it. I pulled it out and it turned over easily. I mounted it on my engine test stand and checked the compression. Over 100 on all 8, to my surprise. So I replaced the carburetor and all of the ignition parts. It started right up and ran great. At this point, I had the same apprehension about the cleanliness of the block that you have. I ran a couple of plain water only flushes and then one with a can of commercial chemical flush. During this period, the engine was mounted on my test stand with a radiator and fan so I could run it for a while while performing the flushes.. After this I ran three Rust-911 (like Evaporust , only cheaper) flushes. Each time I ran the engine up to operating temperature and let it run 5-10 minutes more. I then let the Rust-911 solution sit a couple of days to work it's magic. The first run came out almost black when I drained it. A couple of more runs, and it came out clear. Here is a photo through the front water pump openings when I was done.


Like you, I did not want to disturb an apparently good running engine to be able to do a conventional mechanical rust and crud removal, so I did it this way. I think it turned out fine.

I have been running this engine in my '51 Ford club coupe for the last 10 years with no overheating problems. The engine is mildly modified with custom fitted Edmunds heads, a Rochester 2G carb, and a Mallory dual point. It runs strong, but now, after 10 years, is starting to blow a little oil at high speeds. Oil pressure is up to factory specs and the only time the heat starts to build up is after about 10 minutes over 70 on the freeway (3.55 gears, no OD). I think it has more to do with the crummy aerodynamics of the ol' shoebox, than any conventional cooling system problems. Back off to 60 for a few miles an it cools right down.

 

Pull the pumps, poke around, dislodge, and remove all the rust, casting sand, and core support wires that maybe in there.

 

Thanks guys! These are helpful suggestions. I will start with mechanical removal, then finish with chemical removal. Much obliged!

The books I read all suggested stripping the block bare and using machine shop methods. I now have some alternatives.

 

My flathead is a 99 block from a 40 Merc. It’s been bored to 3-3/8”, a recipe for overheating. But the rebuilder had the water jackets sandblasted out before doing his machine work. Now I drive around at 180 degrees. Too cold?

 

Another “trick” I have used on flatheads(bare block works best) to help get rid of “schmegma” is secure a large piece of 3/8—1/2 in plywood. Next to it, stand the bare block nose down and then push it over vigorously letting it slam onto the plywood. Keep this ritual up until no more loosened “schmegma” is separated from the internals where water has run b4. Flatheads Forever!!

 

My 3 3/8ths + .030" motor runs cool as well. So much so, I run without a fan for it will run too cold. Only on the most humid and hot days and in stop & go traffic does it need it.

The block I used had so much***** packed into the water jackets, I could drive a screw driver into it like a nail! It was the worst one I've dealt with.

Like others have said, braided cable, long thin, straight bladed screw drivers and manually get all that gunk out. Use a good flashlight and take a peak in there. I also recommend get a reducer for a shop vac and use flexible tubing to help you vacuum out the loose stuff.

I've never used Tubman's process, but would on the next one. This is such a crucial step that is often overlooked. It is crucial to a cool running flathead. Don't be surprised if you find cast wire, super packed gunk and casting sand in the water jackets.

I run with water and anti-corrosion additive. It is made by a company called No-Rosion. They also make a cleaner that etches and provides a coating to prevent flash rusting when using water. It works great.

 

Ditto on No-Rosion products, been using their additives for 20 years on our customers car collections, good stuff.

 

I recall this watching his build. Can’t recall if it worked. He decided later to go with a Jag motor.
I cleaned out a lot of***** from my second flathead just using whatever I had handy to reach down into and across the water coolant openings. Screw drivers, bent coat hangers, pry bars. Then used extendable magnetic “wands” to pull it all out. A ton of rust and a scale came out.

 

Just a quick follow up - I did a lot of poking and prodding with long screwdrivers, welding rods, and the 1/4" wire cable/drill method that ClarkH mentioned above and it actually looks pretty good. I will get it running and then follow through with the chemical methods as suggested by tubman. I still have the internals in the motor so I will forgo the large-scale electrolysis and impact-on-plywood ideas until I get to work on my other motor, which is down to the bare block. I have done electrolysis in a 5 gallon pail in the past, but not a 55 gallon drum. Big stuff!

Thanks again guys!

 

This pic is what came out of one side. Long skinny screw driver to dig in the mud at the bottom, neck down your shop vac with some 3/8 or so copper tube, red green style, do this all while its dry. Ive never done the evaporust treatment, but it sure wound't hurt

 

Electrolysis is a line of sight between the rusty spot and the anode. Not gonna happen inside a water jacket. Also be careful before attempting an acidic soaking as there have been reports that it causes porosity in the cast iron. Especially if left in for long (how long is long?).