Questions about Packard/Rolls Royce

I know that this is not a "Traditional Car" based on this forum. I understand that to start

Before I open a GIANT SIZE canoworms, I am posing the question to the folks, is there anyone here that is an expert on Packard/Rolls Royce combination cars.

You can PM me or just add on to this thread, I will send pictures and such about the car in question, not to clog up the Hamb with an untraditional car.

We just have a large volume of knowledge on this site and I wanted to see if I can tap into it.

The AACA guys are rude, and I am trying to get on the Packard site to ask a few questions as well.

Thanks again

 

I might be able to help if I knew what you were driving at. What do you mean by Packard / Rolls Royce combination cars?

If you are talking about this Packard site http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/ they have some very smart people posting there if you don't mind the occasional waspish remark. Not near as snotty as some of the posters on this board, for example.

 

Do you mean combination cars as in, ambulance/he**** combination? That would come under the heading of professional cars. There are collectors of professional cars including combination cars, no doubt they have their own clubs and web sites if you do a search.

 

If it is a Packard it must have been made no later than 1958 which puts it in the traditional camp. If you are worried about asking about a he**** the ghoul and zombie fans won't mind.

 

LOL, thanks Rusty. I am waiting for my registration to be authorized on that Packard Site. I will post a pic or two and tell the story at least to flesh this out. Agian, I am not trying to open the canoworms.

From what I understand in the mid 20's Rolls sent a workforce over to build Rolls Royces. They figured it was to expensive to send over completed cars. Plant was in Springfield MA. They used Packard Ch***is and drivelines, and bodied the cars as Rolls.

From the information "presented" to me this may be a Holbrook Body 281 but we can only find one body tag on the car. I think it was a good buy, even though the wood is in bad shape. Guy that owns it just wants to sell it but not part it.

 

What that may be is a Springfield Rolls-Royce. Rolls had a plant in Springfield, M*** to keep up with demand, it was around from around 1920-1093, and they built about 1-200 cars per year there.

They did not use any frame or engine out of a Packard.

 

I've never heard that before. I've had interest in rods and antiques for 45 years, but not much up on cl***ics.

Actually, unless the roofline was ugly, that looks pretty cool for a typical mid 20s Rolls

 

You got some BS info. The Springfield R-R had no Packard in them.

jack vines

 

You have been misinformed. Rolls Royce did indeed build a factory in Springfield to build Rolls Royce cars for the American market. But the cars were entirely of Rolls Royce design and manufacture. Over the years they made some changes to adapt to American needs, such as changing to left hand drive and adopting some American made accessories.

Packard had nothing to do with Rolls Royce cars, then or at any other time.

What confuses some people is that Packard built Rolls Royce aircraft engines during WW2.

Packard started building aircraft engines in WW1. They continued in the twenties, even developing a diesel aircraft radial which flew successfully in 1929. During WW2 they were a leading supplier of big V12 water cooled engines for aircraft, and even bigger ones for PT boats and other marine applications.

One of the models they made was the Rolls Royce Merlin which was in great demand at the time. So great the English factory could not keep up so they licensed Packard to produce them. The Packard was an excellent engine fully up to Rolls Royce standards.

 

Oh hell ya buy it. If nothing else it will bring a fortune with the restore crowd.

 

I agree with F&J.......I am not a Cl***ic Car afficianado, but I have had a casual interest in them. I have heard of the Springfield Rolls, as mentioned by posters above, but NEVER in regard to having anything but Rolls running gear.

If the car pictured is a Rolls with a Packard engine....it could very well have been re-engined due to cost or availbility issues ***ociated with Rolls engine.....after all these years, anything is possible.

Am curious to see what you find out.......even if it's from another forum, perhaps you can post the info on this thread.

Ray

 

Yes, I have the Standard Catalog of American Cars out, and there is no mention of anything about Packard. Think about it, what would be the point of trying to market a half breed car?

it says the US Rolls company was started because the backorders were 2-3 years for US customers due to WW1. Nothing on Packard at all.

 

I dont know enough about the cars involved to ID the engine and frame one way or another.. but I wouldnt be shocked if someone rebodied a Springfield Rolls with a roadster type body and threw the old body on an old Packard ch***is...

 

....Or make a unique hot rod.

 

Rolls Royce had a problem selling their cars in the US that having a local plant did not address. One was that Rolls was trying to sell a six cylinder car when the leading American luxury makes were offering 8 cylinder and even 12 cylinder machines.

In a confidential report in the twenties an American Rolls executive told his bosses that it was hard selling 6 cylinder cars when even medium price makes selling for less than half the money, had 8 cylinders.

The one advantage they had was their hand made bodies, compared to which the typical American car was rather tinny and cheap. But of course, the buyer of an American luxury make could have a custom body made by the same firms that supplied Rolls Royce bodies.

In that case Rolls had nothing much to offer that was better, and the price comparison was downright embarr***ing.

Possibly this explains why they never sold 200 cars a year when Packard was selling 50,000 and why they abandoned the experiment after 9 years.

Actually the end came when Rolls developed a new model and did not find it worthwhile to retool the American plant. From then on all Rolls Royce cars were made in England.

 

The engine in your picture may be Packard, it is definitely not Rolls Royce. They never made a straight eight, well they did make about 5 straight eight cars for royalty in the early fifties but it looked nothing like that. It appears someone replaced the engine at some time in the past. The body looks kind of hacked too.

If you post that pic on the Packard site I bet a dollar to a doughnut it gets identified in under an hour.

 

Must be the first custom. Somebody stuck a RR grill on a Packard.

 

I've seen in person, three Springfield Rollers, and they all had Rolls-Royce engines. No Packard. The reasons have been very well covered above.

You have a R-R with a Packard engine someone stuck in it at some point.

 

Here is the one owner Springfield Rolls I saw in person last weekend. Sorry no engine or dash pics.

 

Ask Highlander on here, he's a Packard guy.

 

You may have the world's oldest resto rod lol.

 

I feel pretty confident the entire ch***is is Packard. I know the engine is, the number is 167004. Even the rear luggage rack has marked on it Packard 8 3120-1. What would be neat to me is that makes a restoration or getting back on the road easier with Packard parts. The body wood is bad but not scarry to me. I would be more concerned with some of the corrosion.

If someone threw a Rolls grill and hood on it back in the day, they did a fairly good job in making it work. That wierd windshiled is on a few 26 Packards. This car does not look like it was put together a few months ago. I agree it would be a hoot to do.

What was cool for me was finding all the seams that were hammerwelded on the fenders and around the rear deck. I have been preparing myself to make a steel duplicate of my 32 Aussie Ford Tub, and have read and watched alot of video on working with aluminum. I am going to use steel for the first one.

The only ID on the car is in the floor of the body it has a body tag that says BODY 1819.


And YES, due to the freindly nature of you band of Hambers, I will let you know what I find out.

 

I was looking at some of the curves and lines at the hood and cowl area, and it reminds me a little of Packards, but I never studied them that close.


Maybe get some pics of 20s Packards to compare, side by side? Maybe the car is Packard with a few Rolls parts? I was wondering why the engine bay would be so long for a 6 cyl Rolls, or were those a long engine?

 

BTW, not everyone in the AACA is an ashole.

 

The Springfield Rolls Royce was indeed a long engine. It displaced 7.4 liters or 450 cubic inches. Longer than a Hudson straight eight and possibly the same length as the Packard.

 

Here is a history of the Holbrook body company.

http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/h/holbrook/holbrook.htm

They were an old New York firm specializing in rather stodgy sedan, coupe, and convertible sedan bodies

The rather odd looking windshield and visor was an effort to deal with the glare problem. In big cities, at night, the flat, vertical windshield would frequently blind the driver with reflected light. Various solutions were tried, such as mounting the gl*** at a reverse angle, or adding a visor. This was not such a problem outside the biggest cities as street lighting, neon lights, etc were almost non existent in smaller towns and suburban areas, and of course, completely absent in the country. So these odd windshields and visors seen on custom bodies of the twenties were mainly a New York phenomenon. After 1930 when slanted windshields came in, the problem was much less marked.

By the way the story states that in the twenties a typical Holbrook body sold for $2500 to $2600 retail. Add that to the $5000 a Rolls Royce ch***is cost and you have a $7500 car.

At the time you could buy a Cadillac sedan, fully equipped for $3885. Or the custom body sedan for $4500. Their most expensive model, the custom body 7 p***enger sedan cost $4950.

 

It looks to be a 1928 Dietrich bodied Packard. One of the books that I have on Packard shows a very similar car. The book on Rolls doesn't show one with those body lines. Even the headlights match the picture of the Packard, so someone must have added the Rolls grill at some point in time.

 

That was my hunch too.

 

Id like to keep the faith with you on that, it just seems when I pose questions to the antique crowd on that site, I walk away wondering why I asked. And its not like I ask questions about the proper generator color for a 31 Chevy.

 

Turning into Frankenstiens monster I guess. Some of the styling cues are intersting. The cowl lights look similar. The small luggge door is the Packard look, but at least on that one picture of the roller its more like another door. I guess its no different than todays cars, everyone makes a similar look. The rear end of the car looks similar.

Less views of this on the Hamb, and I have gotten 100% more feedback that is way more informative and positive.