Hot Rods Quick Change, Quickchange

So here's mine that I put together from a pile of parts that I bought at the San Diego Big 3 from a sprint car racer. It's a repaired winters. I made a front bearing retainer to convert it to open drive line. The biggest job was making the wheel adapters to allow the use of the splined sprint car live axle ends. I also angle milled and welded bungs to the used birdcages to allow me to mount to my '36 radius rods. I've got a few street miles on it and it's working great...not too noisy. The single disk doesn't work as well as the previous rear disks, but it's OK. The "spool" effect of the live axle has been a non issue, and it does make it fun on on ramps!

 

Tltony,
You are officially the live axle expert.
What bolt pattern did you make the adaptors for?
Just to let others know, there are off the shelf splined adaptors for wide 5 wheels.

 

I didn't find any pre made adaptors/hubs. I had to farm this our because my lathe isn't big enough, They're 11" OD. These bolt directly to the 5 on 5 1/2 Ford wires.

 

Here is a photo of the Winters differential that must be cut down to used with side plates on the Halibrand. Compare the two units. DPI and Winters. Note how much must be removed to fit in the bearing centers. The last photo shows the unit with the notched gas tank.


This is a used unit on ebay.

Note the machined bearing surface to fit the bearing in the proper location.

I love the look even though it is a lot of work. These are Halibrand side plates.

 

Can you give me some clarity on some parts i recently picked up? I have a ARC Champ quickchange center section. Is the ARC the same bolt pattern as the Halibrand?

Also I picked up this sidebell on ebay and it appears to be Halibrand from the part numbers but as you can see from the photos it it smaller then the ARC Champ sidebell. Can you provide any insight?

 

I have a case just like yours on my shelf. It may be a Davis which was built for micro and/or 3/4 midgets. It may also be a Progressive which is very rare and I have one in my Solar rail frame midget. Also check Bennett and Pat Warren who I think also made midget rear ends. I will check my stuff and look closer at these pictures in the next week or so.

 

CraigBC,
The ARC side plate you have is for a live axle and 11 bolt center section. The Halibrand is for a 12 bolt center and adapts the center to early Ford axle trumpets. They each should fit into the register on either type center section but the holes don't line up and can't be drilled for the opposite pattern.
To answer your question, 11 bolt plates from virtually all manufacturers will fit 11 bolt cases but there may be some machining of the ring gear carrier required to get the backlash correct. Look for a thread about this shortly. I will link it here.
12 bolt center sections were made by Halibrand, CAE, ARC, and Benson for sure. I believe Frankland made12 bolt side bells but am not sure if they made matching center sections or only offered them as replacements for the other manufacturers.
If you can't use that Halibrand plate, I'm interested.

Bruce

 

I understand the purpose of both just wanted to clarify the application. What is the most common today on both modern and vintage champ style quickchanges 11 or 12 bolt? Do you have a blog anywhere with your knowledge of the quickchanges? I would be interested in reading more.

 

I have used both the CAE and Halibrand side plates for my Halibrand Champ H301A housings. Halibrand made both the 12 bolt side plate adapters – part number H852 A and 11 bolt side plate adapters – part number ATH852A. These numbers are stamped inside the adapter plates. Halibrand also made Champ center sections in both 11 and 12 bolt configurations - part numbers are ATH301 (11 bolt) and H301A &M (12 bolt) 11 bolts were popular due to the ease of using two left side 3/4 Ton Ford Truck housings (1938-52) which bolted to the 11 bolt case. If you plan on using the old parts take either one if you can locate the side adapter plates for the V8 axle tubes. I prefer the 12 bolt for some reasons but Bruce did and 11 bolt for me years ago.

Today, Winters owns the market on quick changes. They use the 11 bolt Champ cases which can be used with their adapters as stated above. If your budget is tight buying a complete unit from Winters is usually cheaper than trying to put together one from parts. The differential is the most expensive part of the set up. I don't recommend a spool for the street but some of my friends run them. I still hunt for the cases and buy all I can find. A quickchange is not for everyone, but for me nothing beats the looks under a street roadster, coupe or sedan.


My old roadster I sold which I should have kept.

 

Lynn,
Do you have any idea why the 11 bolt parts have the AT designation?

My belief is that Ted Halibrand did the 12 bolt configuration because of his extensive experience in aircraft castings. The even clamping of 12 equally spaced studs and nuts is theoretically superior to the spread 11 bolt configuration. But, I believe that the thru-bolt configuration of the 11 bolt pattern gives more strength. Probably makes no difference to a hot rodder. I've never seen any evidence of one being better or worse.
About your roadster, we all should have kept them all!

 

Here is a list of Quick Change manufacturers that I have compiled. It was originally posted on the HAMB on another thread. With the conversion to the new format it was corrupted and unreadable. Hope it comes through now.
Please feel free to post anything you might know about any of these companies, individuals, and locations. Pictures are encouraged.

 

I agree with your assumption about the 12 bolt. As I stated, either will work just fine if you can locate the side adapter plates but with the 11 bolt you can use the Winters as we discussed and they are brand new.

About the roadster, I am building another one at 74 years of age and hope to have it done before they take my drivers license away.

Here are some more photos. You may recognize the one you did for me with the countersunk Allen stainless bolts. I tried to buy it back but he won't sell it.

Bruce built this one for me in the middle 80's.


Finding a complete set up like this is nice but the spool should be replaced. 11 bolt case


Here is the CAE (NOS) units I found and installed on the 301 Champ. They are much nicer and beefier but hard to find.

If you don't want to cut that precious floor here is an alternative way to mount the QC. Trunk space in a Deuce or Model 40 is limited with the model-A crossmember sticking up through the floor. A rear mounted gas tank would be out of the question with this set up.

 

Here are some more photos of the CAE side adapter plates and gas tank modification on my 33 roadster.


I choose coil overs rather than the A spring due to my bad back. A simple tube from P&J made it easy.



I notched the new Bob Drake tank so I could remove the rear cover if I needed to change gear ratios. (I never did.)



This shows the unit, the gas tank notch and the beefy side plates. I am looking for another set of these. The housings are 1940 Ford with Dutchman 9" ends. I installed the ends with an alignment bar.


The last photo shows how nice the large unit looks under a 33 roadster with only a small portion showing.

 

Thats a Progessive QC, popular on the East Coast. Used in early Midgets. Uses a in & out box bolted on the front of it.Uses Model A R&P

 

Here are some pictures of my BENSON center section! Gary

 

Great thread! I'm lucky to have two V-8's that are built (by Randy Gribble) and ready to go and two Champs that need to be built, one has the Halibrand adapters for bells. I also have a Torsen style differential that I thought might work in the Champ if the width was machined to fit in the Champ case. Any thoughts on this?

 

Anybody have experience using beveled gears instead of straight cut? Rodsville makes and end plate that will accept lager bearings to help with the additional thrust the beveled gears create.

 

Some tim

Been running helical gears for 14,000 miles in my 32 Ford 5 speed. Winters 10" heavy duty QC with Winters track diff, 9' Ford ends. No problems and no metal flake in gear oil.


Ago

 

Gary, what bells or side plates are you planning to run? Be aware that some Benson bells are not the same left and right. You can compensate for this by making one axle tube longer than the other. Also, since the Benson is wider (4 3/8") as opposed to 3 3/4" for a Frankland/Winters etc. you may have to do some differential work to get everything meshed up.
BTW, Benson is John Benson Sr. father of Johnny Benson the NASCAR driver.

 

Helical gears are fine in a street car. If you go racing put straight cuts in. The end loading and shock loading will combine to remove the rear cover without taking the bolts out. I have used the special cover bearings and also run these with standard bearings. Never could see any difference in anything. A lot of hype to sell REALLY expensive bearings.
Like Ago said, "no problems and no metal in the gear oil.

 

Appreciate the details and photo's thus far, like most rodders I'm looking forward to adding a Q/C to my coupe, so all the details are great reference material.
Cheers,
Drewfus

 

my 1972 Frankland QC with big ford 9''bearings.

 

Lynn (or anyone else) were there 11 bolt adaptor plates in magnesium?
I have never seen any, but could use a pair for a special project if they exist.

 

I am checking with 1965 CAE price list of all Halibrand champ part numbers and nothing listed for mag adapter plates. It only shows:
H852A Side Plate for V-8 housing
H853 Side Plate Extra wide
H825 Mag for Ford Truck Hub
H856 Adapter Conversion from V-8 Ring Gear to Champ

hope this helps.

Craig

 

Craig,
That is an interesting list. Jim Culbert (CAE) and Ted Halibrand were friends. I'm wondering if Jim was selling some Halibrand parts rather than duplicating them. Those descriptions leave a lot to the imagination. I would like to see what each of those parts actually is. I have an old Halibrand catalog and will see what matches up.
I'm pretty much convinced that the 11 bolt adaptor plates were only offered in aluminum.
Thanx for posting,
Bruce

 

Hi everyone, getting the QC bug. Have no experience with one, but have this old Frankland 10A-80 that my dad had in a dirt tracker back in the 70's. I know it has a spool in it and full floaters with the wide 5's. Just seeing all your pics makes me want to convert it to be steetable in my 38 coupe! What diffs will work in it and is it a lot of machining needed to put the ford big bearing ends and change to a different spline?

 

Those F2 side bells?

 

Yup and frankland drums

 

These are heavy axle bells from '36 1.5 ton. Do they resemble the bells on your Dad's axle? Can you post more pics?

Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!

 

I believe I read some where that an open diff out of 3/4 ton truck will work. Cant remember, Studebaker or International.


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