Hot Rods Quick Change, Quickchange

Yeah I used the alignment bar and collars but just OCD about rearends. Narrowed tons of 9" fords and we would pass the alignment bar through a dummy chunk with appropriate "pucks" bolted into them. I'm sure it would have been fine with out the plates. Just another idea. For pics of diff see below. This came to me with the 28 spline spider gears but from what I understand there is an off the shelf spider gear that works in place of the stock early ford ones

I do have to shim the bearings out approx .20 to fit right in the trumpets or use a different bearing.

 

I wonder if that is the HotRodWorks 28 spline side gear they offer?? I am putting together a '47 banjo, had the case and ring gear machined for ford ranger 28 spline side gears. They mate very well with the original spiders.

 

Could you put a shim under the cup in the bell to make up some of the difference? That way you wouldn't have to slide the bearing so far off the carrier.

 

I found some " machinery shims" at tractor supply. Perfect little 12 dollar kit with shims from 1/2 id to 1 3/4 id. I have a part # for the right bearing (thanks again dennis!!) but I'm going to try the shims in the mean time to keep rolling.

 

Big Deuce, I think the 28 spline side gear is for the 201 (V8) differential.
There is a 31 spline gear that fits the 3/4 ton carrier. Have not tried it in a 'live' rear end yet.

Summit part number C8OZ4236A, third digit is a letter not a number.

 

Blackout,
Like the idea of the plates. My setup is more like Deuce's, but like you said the housing wants to move around until you get it all welded up.
I'm not sure why you need to space the bearings out that far. What am I missing here?

 

Blackout mentioned to me those bearings in that pic are timken 22168, and not the correct bearings needed. The correct bearing is timken 25578, which is what HotRodWorks sells in their bearing kits, and no shims needed. I dont know what application the 22168 bearing would have been used with but the 25578 bearing is thicker.

 

Thanx

 

That's correct. This all came to me this way. The proverbial " basket case". Just had to figure out what went where and how and...... This thread and your info in particular QCE and FRAMES have been very helpful.

 

Bruce, A friend of mine, just built a Pat Warren unit, using Model A ring & pinion, carrier and axles. I thought you might like some shots of the inside. Ernie Martin does some great work, you and him speak the same language.

 

Thanx Marty,
Looks like Dykem dye on the lower shaft to check for clearance. So many variables with all that old stuff, you have to check everything.

 

Now, this is a great thread for QC lovers!!! I learn more with each post. Thanks!

 

Hey Lynn,
Check your messages.

 

Mr. Strode and others: are the narrow change gears like used in the A/B rearends (1"?) commonly available? And has anyone ever machined down some wider gears (1-3/8") for use in the A/B rears? I bought a whole box (like six different sets) of change gear sets for cheap, but they are too thick. I'm guessing there is a type of heat treatment given to the gears. Maybe just surface hardened that can be cut through, then the going is easy?

I've got an A/B Pat Warren and an early "No-brand" that both need gears.

 

The 1" gears are readly available. I have used and can get new ones. Message me for price and availability.

I have not had any luck in machining any QC gears. I cut one with an abrasive saw but it was slow going. I could find no soft 'core'. A carbide mill cutter wouldn't touch it, even on the exposed surface about 1/2" deep.
I was going to try to anneal it by heating to red hot and placing it in a fire box inside a 500 degree oven and letting it cool slowly. I don't need to have the one I'm working with hard. I just want a block with splines in it.
I suppose a heattreater could anneal them, then you could get them machined and reheatreated. Probably way too expensive, I would guess.

 

OK, I'll just save this boxful for a V8 rear. I wasn't considering retreating the gears after I got them narrowed down on one side. I figured the teeth and one side would still be treated and tough enough for a non-race application. But I bet my machinist doesn't want to sacrifice too much tooling for me to save a few bucks.

 

A shop with a wire EDM machine could trim the gears close, then grinding [surface, Blanchard, lathe with toolpost grinder, etc.] to finish width..

 

Still too much work for what it's worth. I was just hoping the hard surface could be knocked off a little in a (crank) grinder, then taken down to proper width in a lathe. Since QCE can get them, I'll give him a call when I'm ready.

 

Here's a follow up on the 31 spline side gears for the 3/4 ton ford unit as suggested by QCE.

On the left is the stock 12 spline. Right is the 31 spline. They mic'd out the same. Transferred shim from stock to the new side gears, added a little oil and damn if they didn't drop in

Good tooth engagement so I assembled the diff and torqued everything down. Put an old 31 spline axle down the hole and hot damn if it didn't work. Gonna play around with it some more but seems like a drop in and a hell of an easy modification. Thanks again QCE for the tip.
Overhead shot. Kissin cousins

 

I didn't know there might be a shim involved. I guess I never actually saw a complete original carrier. How thick is it?
Now, that brings up the question, "Is there a 28 spline side gear that fits?"
Anybody got a spare one to send for a trial fit?

 

I was just looking back over this thread. In Post # 25 Lynn Pew shows a picture of the 3/4 ton differential and says that he uses these and adapts them using Ford 31 spline side gears from a 9". "Some machine work is required."
So, I guess we just reinvented the proverbial wheel. I'm curious as to what machine work was done. Maybe there are different 31 spline side gears?
Lynn?

 

These we're " drop in " didn't detect any weirdness in fit up and the stock shim was approx .10 thick on both side gears.

 

I have done this before used 9" spider gears I always use the 4spider set and there are differences in the side gears and always assemble it with the original shims to the 3/4 ton carrier use marking compound and check the mesh of the spiders Just like you would a ring and pinion if need be you may have to add or subtract shims on side gears but don't add it all on one side of possible try to equally on each side gear I done this in the flatcad bonneville car and it works great hell it supported over 700 hp and 190 mph I have also done this in several street cars a couple of them with over 10 thousand miles on them

 

What DID they mic at, I have some 31 spline 9" side gears to compare to. The "some machining required", was that the tips of the teeth? Had to do that to the Ranger gears on my banjo conversion.

 

Ok so here's an update on the side gear interchange. So I busted apart a stock differential I had that had 28 spline side gears in it when I got it to see if anything interchanged from a 3/4 ton or 31 spline talked about earlier in this thread.


So the stock " small" ford diff od mic'd out at approx 1.740 as did the stock 3/4 ton ford as well as the 31 spline replacement suggested by QCE. So cool we're all in the same family but......

Although it physically fits you can see the gear pattern overlap so the 31 spline for the stock style diff is a no go with this swap. I ordered a set of 28 spline ford side gears and will let y'all know if they fit up and if so a part #. Anyone else out there with some insight on a " drop in" no special machining required please chime in. Thx all

 

Frames is sending me a 28 spline gear. I'll let you know what I find. I think the most likely candidate would be from a 9".

 

So this is what I ended up ordering after an exhaustive motive gear search. 9" 28 spline. Well see. May be wall hangers or hot damn

 

I used all the 9" spider gears not just the side gears and I made sure to use the 4 spider set

 

You stated that the 28 spline was a no-go. One pic shows the gear teeth have some overlap, but in this pics it shows that the side gear has been ground buy hand at one time for such clearance?? No overlap in this combination.

 

Sorry for any confusion. The 28 spline that came with the rear, of which I don't know where came from fits and works, the 12 spline from a 3/4 ton ford carrier and ultimately the 31 spline upgrade , will not fit in the early housing. Hope this clears it up.