The old Corvair IFS under my heap works well and is hidden by full fenders except for steering gear sticking out the front. It's very narrow, 36" between the outer tie rod ends, 13" between lower control arms. I'd like to go rack and pinion, is there a factory setup that can get this narrow? Aftermarket? How about something like this? Thanks.
That is Caviler, rear-steer rack, I believe. Narrowest one I know of, but it is rear steer. Is your current setup rear-steer?
Even if that WAS a front steer unit it wouldn't be geometrically correct. If you look at your suspension from the front, and draw an imaginary line from the lower inner pivot to the upper inner pivot, somewhere on that line is where your that where your inner tie rod pivots on the new rack need to fall. Anything outside that line will get you into "bump steer". Ackerman can also be effected by moving the rack closer or farther away from the crossmember.
It's out front, and I mean out front. I think behind would be better, I believe Corvair steering arms can be reversed and I think I can snake the shaft to it. Yep, that is Cavalier. Are there others with this type of arrangement? Thanks!
The article I swiped that Cavalier image from was saying longer tie rods are OK, just not shorter ones. Incorrect? http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Swapping_to_rack_and_pinion_steering
Incorrect! The upper and lower A arms and tie rods all have to pivot in the same arc. If you were to make the tie rods longer, it would lessen and reverse the amount of unwanted movement a bit, but it still wouldn't be correct. A rack has to be the right part and mounted in the right location to work correctly. There really isn't any "wiggle room" on this deal, it's only your directional control, ya know? I have come across people that will tell me all about how well this or that rack conversion works, then later ask me why their car feels "floaty" at speed; and just what do think I could be from? Or, "but all hot rods kinda feel that way"... Not trying to be harsh or stomp on your dreams, but that is the reality. By the way, the Cavalier rack you showed gained some popularity in the late eighties and nineties as a conversion for '41 - '54 Chrysler, products because their lower inner pivots were close together and kinda pointed to the back. You unfortunately had to mount the rack so far back that the Ackerman reversed itself and the rack had to be mounted so low it dragged on stuff on low cars... I've looked at doing exactly what you want to do a couple of years ago for a client and just couldn't find anything that would work for the task at hand as far as a rear mount system. There just really isn't any room between the cross member and the rear inner pivot mounts to make it happen.
You are so right when it comes to suspension ackerman, bump steer, and inner tie rod points. Even name brand suspension is not set up right at times
Thanks much for the advice Louvers. Well, plan B is to just make a panel and cover the existing steering gear.. Two more questions please: You mentioned coming up empty looking at rear mount racks for this setup, might it still be possible for me to go to a front mount rack, which I think would at least sit further back than what I have? Second, how did the Cavalier get away with such long tie rods, were the control arms that close together?
It was a Macpherson strut front end with super long lower arms, nearly verticle struts, damn near zero Ackerman, and a lousy handling car... As far as your front mount deal, I honestly can't remember what folks used for racks on those. A couple that spring to mind were MGB, Plymouth Cricket, and Fiat. I can do a bit of searching for you through the old mag collection if it would help.
Hey, your working on a Bantam, aren't you! I've built one of those. Did mine a bit more altered style 'cause that's what the customer wanted. It really might be in your best interest to do a narrow tube axle and cross spirng under that car. I know it would be a lot of work, but it would be best in the long run. Another thought, do you have that rack you showed in your possesion?
Racks can be modified in several ways to make their width correct. The rack can be shortened to use the existing tie rods by machining new sockets after shorting the rack & then modifying the housing or drilling the end of the rack & threading to accept rod ends after getting it the proper length. Of course you need the rack that works in the proper direction & consider the ackerman before fitting.
I have the Corvair in the Vicky. Car has been on the road since 1976. I didn't like the Pinto front steer rack as it was in front of the radiator, with no splash apron. I swapped the steering arms, side to side. Then used a Mopar rear steer rack (probably Omni) that I bought from Total Cost Involved (TCI). It was great, except the turning radius was too large. The fix was to get the shorter, high performance Corvair steering arms from Clarke's Corvair in Shelbourne, Mass. I can get their contact info if you need it. The rack doesn't show, I've put, oh, 90+ thousand miles on this setup and like it much better than what was on the original build. Hope this helps, Phil
Fat man suggested a VW Rabbit R&P for rear steer on a Corvair front end. Give him a call to find out which years.
Wow, that Appleton looks the part. Yes, Santa brought me a '38 Bantam pickup for Christmas, which was a heck of a lot better than socks and underwear, if not a bit more complicated. I have many things to sort besides the steering, but the big Turlock swap is in two weeks so I thought maybe I'd add a R & P to my already lengthy list. I'm going to have to hire TWO kids with wagons to follow me around. I have no rack setup now, I'll keep an eye out for those mentioned, MG, Pinto, Rabbit, if just to open one up, play with it and see how much room I have for one. I probably would be happy with a straight axle and leafs, but what's on there is fairly well incorporated into the ladder frame supporting the flattie. Pprather mentioned there is room for a rear rack on his Vicky, mine might be too small and tight. Louvers, were you thinking of moving the ends out on the Cavalier rack?
I have used some of them racks. I just bend up a flat bar 8x 60 mm, drilled holes to bolt it on the rack and two holes on the right place for the tie rods then you got the corect geometry I used one for front steer. Used the rack from a right hand drive Opel Kadet and flipped it upside down A couple of years later my friend bought a rack conversion for his Corvette from some US company and it was made of the same rack using the same metod Many Mustangrack kits is made the same way i have found out
Absolutely! Heo below suggested that a bit ago, and that's exactly where I was going as well. P Prather above would be someone who's opinion I would very closely look at. I have liked his car since I was a teen and it was featured in Rod Action in '78 or so. I do know he drives it too. If his OMNI rack will snake behind the crossmember and work with the shorter arms then I would look that direction. Your right, that's a much better Christmas gift than socks and underwear! Give the gift of rust, grease, frustration and ultimately, fun... Gotta teach mine that!
Thanks Gimpy, be nice if they sold that bar separately for the usual racks, and undrilled for the tie rods. Starting to look more feasible. Hmm, power steering, hadn't considered it, but can one use a power rack setup without the juice and add the pump later?
Thanks MAV, I'm sure he's thinking MK1 VW. My daily beater, co-incidentally, happens to be an '81 Rabbit diesel pickup. In fact, it's one reason I wanted a hot rod, suffering from a case of Volkswagen induced gonad shrinkage. So I just crawled out from under it, and the inner tie rod end spacing is close to what I need 12-14", I'll have to get it up in the air for a better look.
Not too sure that running a power rack, dry, would be good for it. Without the assist, it might be hard to steer.
I'm quite sure running a power rack dry wouldn't be good for it Posted from the TJJ App for iPhone & iPad
No, I suppose it wouldn't. Even a bit more dreaming, I'm seeing electric power steering pumps some have hooked to a toggle switch. Pull in the parking lot, turn on the pump. Three point turn, no problem. I suppose those racks are engineered for it. Far beyond my intentions but interesting non the less.
I used a manual rack from a Mercury Mercur for a rear mount rack in a Model A with a Corvair front suspension and used the short steering arms
Anyone know of a front rack that has the tie rod mounts in the middle like the Cavalier? Yes, I could go with a Mustang style rack and make an adapter to move the tie rods in to my 13" centers but I think it would better in my case to mount the rack to the frame rails rather then the cross member.
My dad used to run a mini stock years ago and I'm pretty sure some guys with 80's mustangs used to fill the rack with oil and loop the lines together. I think the idea was that the power rack and pinion had a quicker ratio. This was 20+ years ago and I was just a kid but it may? be possible.
93-95 (newer might be the same as well, not sure) Dodge Intrepid, Chrysler Concord, & Eagle Vision have a front steer rack with the center tie rod connections like a Cavalier rack, but I believe they are all power steering. Back in the day, when we were broke, we ran power steering boxes on our dirt track cars without power steering. We filled the box with power steering fluid can connected the two fittings together. We were running 12" wide front tires, how much extra strength it took to turn the dumb thing we had no idea, but never had a box problem.
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