Technical Re-VIN Tagging my project

I've had this car for a LONG time, and in 3 iterations have finally come to the finish line with it.
The back story:
When I originally bought the rust heap in (1968 folks!) I bought it from a used car lot in town.
In 1973, having come back from active duty, I licensed the thing beore I left and was driving it legally registered and titled to me with a different engine and trans.
In 1982, unfortunately, I got married and put it away.
In 1998 I got divorced and got re-acquainted with my toy and revived her from the frame up, including a new Fiberglas body, engine,trans, etc.
The setup:
I have consistently had -and still have- the legal title and the original body tag, and I have matched the frame to the title, so I know no one has pulled any magic while I was sleeping. The only problem is, he tag is a mess even though I can still easily read the numbers.
The Issue:
The tag fell off during the rebuild and I managed to keep it in a baggie safe and sound until now.
I want to replace this road-weary tag with a nice new one that looks just like it (replacement tag with original stamped numbers)
The Finish Line: A rebuilt love of my life in a street rod format that bares her original numbers featured proudly on a new tag on the original spot on a new body and everyone lives happily ever-after. (In Wisconsin)

 

I understand! But--I think the changeover is either illegal or real close to it, and the legal way (state issued new number, nothing like correct location or appearance ) is VERY far from what you want. My suggestion...put the battered original back with original type fasteners. Get your repro made up either as just the plate (with fake rivet heads or whatever) or as the plate riveted to a nice body-colored steel plate and come up with a good way to put it over the original but readily removable. Velcro, rare earth super magnets, hot rod magic, whatever. Then it can just be removed for general driving and of course made to disappear immediately if you have an accident. You do not want either the cops or the insurance adjuster to have to figure out what the hell you are up to!

 

Wouldn't the best place to be/start be your state DMV?

 

Have you called the Wisc DMV and asked them what to do? If not why would you ask here for opinions of people who can only give you what they think may be correct?

 

If you need a replacement, you might check here: http://www.machineplatesonline.com/plate-info/vin-and-hull-plates/

 

To do it right you will need to run it though your state's dmv. If it were mine, I'd have my documentation including the title, any old registration slip I still had, current registration if you have it and if you have the a series of photos that show various stages along the way from when you bought it to when it was at it's worse to the condition it is in now. The state will probably give you a salvage or rebuilt vehicle title on it but so be it, That ends any argument down the line as to it being that car and how you are representing it. Where guys get their tit in a wringer is when they don't jump though the hoops and then something happens like a wreck and the law starts saying that the car isn't the one you represent it to be.

 

I agree with Bruce,the vin tag on our wagon is rough looking but it's original and here in South Carolina removing the vin number can result in your car being confiscated and a trip to jail.

You really should talk to the DMV instead of us. HRP

 

In my mind there is no way that you can put an original tag on a fiberglass body and be legal.
Just my $.02 and I've sure been wrong before.
Pete

 

Hell No! The only thing the DMV is good for is giving you the most grief, hardest and most expensive way to do EVERYTHING.

I would skip the tag. The VIN is on the frame that matches the title, just like on my 58 Caddy convertible. Many old cars do not even have VIN tags. I had a 1928 Chrysler roadster with a late model 340 engine and trans. There was a square stainless steel homemade VIN plate screwed to the wood under the dash. DMV looked at it and said "Looks good". I also have a VW based boatcar. The Chassis is a VW and just like when you build a dunebuggy, the VIN is stamped on the rear crossmember. When I registered it I registered the VW. Even removed the VIN tag from the boat body. Didn't think they would give me a road plate and registration on a boat VIN. Been driving it for almost three years without an issue. Don't make yourself a problem when a problem doesn't currently exist.

 

I missed the fiberglass body deal. Since you have it titled and have it licensed, the last thing I would do is draw attention to it with the fiberglass body and a vin tag from a real original metal body. Use it and enjoy it, and stay out of trouble with it, and you will be OK. Try to get new vin tags for what you have will open a pandoras box worth of trouble. Just my opinion, you get what you paid for.

 

Worst possible advice in this thread.

If there is ever cause for a law enforcement officer of other agent of the state to look at this vehicle, it quite possibly will be heading for the forever impound.

Following advice like this leads to uncaring lawmakers passing brand new laws, legislating our hobby out of existence.

 

In case you want to know the class of what I am talking about here:

1364. Altering Or Removing Motor Vehicle Identification Numbers
Section 511(a) of Title 18 makes it a felony knowingly to remove, obliterate, tamper with, or alter an identification number for a road motor vehicle or a road motor vehicle part. Section 511(b) of Title 18 creates exceptions for certain persons who engage in lawful conduct that may result in removal or alteration of an identification number. The legislative history is abundantly clear that subsection (b) is not intended to create a loophole for the operators of "chop shops." See H.R.Rep. No. 1087 on H.R. 6257, 98th Congress, 2d Sess. 23-25 (1984).

Section 511(c) of Title 18 contains the definitions for "identification number," "motor vehicle," "motor vehicle demolisher," and "motor vehicle scrap processor." The term "identification number" means a number or symbol that is inscribed or affixed for purposes of identification under chapter 301 and Part C of subtitle VI of Title 49.

Title 49, Chapter 301 authorizes the Secretary of Transportation to promulgate motor vehicle safety standards. Pursuant to this authority, Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 115-Vehicle Identification Number (49 C.F.R. §§ 571.115 and 565.1 to 565.5) requires public VIN numbers on road vehicles (passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks, buses, trailers, and motorcycles). Part C of subtitle VI of Title 49 (49 U.S.C. § 33101 et seq.) authorizes the Secretary of Transportation to promulgate theft prevention (parts marking) standards. The parts marking regulations are set forth in 49 C.F.R. Part 541. The mandatory component identification requirement applies to certain high theft passenger car lines starting with model year 1987. In 1995, the theft prevention (parts marking) standard was expanded to include certain multipurpose passenger vehicles and certain non high theft lines beginning with model year 1997.

 

You have a fake car, what's wrong with having a fake number!! ie,DMV Vin plate.

 

Wow, so far I count replies from 8 different States and not one of them is Wisconsin! Go to a DMV office where you live.

 

Before you do anything that may come back to haunt you :

In my experience with DMV , the best approach was to state to them your intention to follow the correct legal process .I was directed by them to the License & Theft office and the inspectors there reviewed all my info ,described the process that should be followed and eventually authenticate ,issue & install my VIN number.
In this case honesty was the best policy..If they detect any sort of deception ,they can make life miserable .The process also insures traceability in case of theft and later if you sell the car , the buyer doesnt bring it back because they can't register it .
BTW : It was only after I got to the Tag Issuing Office that the confusion started , but as I had all the proper paperwork it was easily straightened out..
Just my $0.02 worth..
Stan

 

If you want irrefutable proof of ownership of the vehicle, then swallow hard and do what your state's DMV says you need to do.

Otherwise, just pick one of the various, simpler methods listed above.

 

What year and make car are we talking about here? Vette? There's a Canadian fella that sells BLANK early Chevrolet VIN tags on that auction site we all know and love, and on Craig's List occasionally. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

This is who I use, he does excellent work and ships right to your door. You can order the tags pre-stamped with your VIN already on it. You can even send him a photo of your old tag, so it'll be an exact replica.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/STAMPED-CH...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2648

 

I do not know Wisconsin law, but in Illinois you can look at the secretary of State website. They have a custom vehicle-street rod licensing and title section that explains the title process. If you build from scratch, you get a special constructed title. Can't use original numbers. They supply the tag.

John

 

http://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/formdocs/mv3623b.pdf
this form asks for an officer to verify the VIN in two locations. Problem is you only have one. So you are looking to register the car as "reconstructed?" Definitely would not want to be the guy who affixes a metal body VIN tag to a body that is obviously new and made of fiberglass. That's crossing a line.
Of course early model T's only had an engine number pre-1925 and no "VIN" on the body. But yours is new enough that this does not apply here.

Here's an OT weblink that discusses WI hot rods and the WI DMV:

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/getting-hot-rod-titled-wisconsin-162239.html

 

below are some of the Wisconsin statute provisions concerning the OP's situation. The wording is specific, read carefully. State laws and codes are internet available go to www.wisconsin.gov search and you will find all of Wis Chapter 342.

The Wisconsin Department of Motor Vehicles Vehicle Services Unit has dealt with many out of the ordinary legal VIN and titling situations and the results were positive for the vehicle owner. I agree that the OP should discuss this with WisDMV. It would be interesting to see how they reply to asking them about using a replacement tag with original stamped numbers.


WISCONSIN CHAPTER 342 VEHICLE TITLE AND ANTI−THEFT LAW

SUBCHAPTER III ANTI−THEFT AND ANTI−FRAUD PROVISIONS 342.30 Identification numbers. (1c) In this section, “owner” includes the lessee of a vehicle if the vehicle is registered, or required to be registered, by the lessee under ch. 341. (1g) (a) Except as provided in par. (b), no person may remove, alter or obliterate or intentionally make it impossible to read, as required under sub. (2), an identification number. This subsection does not apply to the obliteration of an identification number
which occurs in the process of crushing a vehicle or vehicle part for scrap. (b) A person who repairs a vehicle or vehicle part may remove and replace a decal that contains an identification number if the removal and replacement is reasonably necessary for the repair. Cross−reference: See also ch. Trans 155, Wis. adm. code. (1m) When the department is satisfied as to the ownership of a vehicle subject to registration which has not been numbered by the manufacturer or on which the original number has been removed, obliterated or altered or on which the original casting has been replaced or on which a new identification number is required under s. 342.06 (1) (f), the department shall assign a new identification number for each such vehicle. (2) Except as provided in this subsection, an identification number assigned by the department to a vehicle shall be permanently affixed to a location on the vehicle specified by the department that is readily visible when observed from outside the vehicle. Identification numbers assigned for cycles shall be stamped on the left side, near the top of the engine casting just below the cylinder barrel. Such stamping or affixing shall be done under the supervision of a dealer, distributor or manufacturer registered under s. 341.51 or under the supervision of a peace officer. The person supervising the stamping or affixing shall make a report thereof to the department. The department shall establish forms to be provided to vehicle owners specifying the location, for various types of vehicles, where identification numbers assigned by the department shall be stamped or affixed. (2m) (a) A traffic officer or person authorized to enforce nonmoving traffic violations may use reasonable means to gain access to a vehicle if that vehicle’s identification number cannot be read as required under sub. (2). (b) Any person acting under par. (a) is immune from civil and criminal liability for good faith actions taken within the scope of that person’s official duties. (3) (a) Any person who violates sub. (1g) is guilty of a Class H felony. (b) 1. Any owner of a vehicle for which the department has issued a new identification number who fails to have such number attached or stamped as required by sub. (2) may be required to forfeit not more than $200. 2. Any owner of a vehicle for which the department has issued a new identification number who with intent to defraud fails to have such number attached or stamped as required by sub. (2) may be required to forfeit not more than $1,000. (4) (a) If a law enforcement agency finds a vehicle or part of a vehicle on which the identification number has been removed, altered or obliterated or made impossible to read, the law enforcement agency may seize the vehicle or part of a vehicle. If the identification number cannot be identified, the seized vehicle or vehicle part is presumed to be contraband. Except as provided in par. (d), if the identification number can be identified, the agency may return the vehicle to the owner. Except as provided in par. (b), the district attorney shall institute forfeiture proceedings under s. 973.076 regarding any vehicle or vehicle part that is seized under this paragraph and not returned to the owner. (b) If the district attorney brings a criminal action arising out of the seizure under par. (a), the district attorney shall not institute forfeiture proceedings under s. 973.076 before there is a final determination in the criminal action. (c) Paragraph (a) does not apply to the obliteration of an identification number that occurs in the process of crushing a vehicle or vehicle part for scrap. (d) If the identification number of a motorcycle or part of a motorcycle seized under par. (a) can be identified and if no forfeiture proceeding is commenced under s. 973.076 within 30 days after the seizure of the property, the custodian of the seized property shall immediately return the seized property to the owner named in the certificate of title or registration. If a motorcycle or part of a motorcycle is not returned to the owner named in the cetificate of title or registration as required in this paragraph, and if the owner of the property commences a replevin action to recover possession of the property, and if the judge finds that the custodian of the property unreasonably retained the property after 30 days after the seizure, the court shall award the owner the costs and reasonable attorney fees incurred in the replevin action. History: 1971 c. 278; 1975 c. 121; 1977 c. 29 s. 1654 (7) (a); 1985 a. 202; 1987 a. 349; 1991 a. 233; 1993 a. 92, 165; 1997 a. 27, 33, 252, 283; 1999 a. 9, 80, 186; 2001 a. 109; 2011 a. 262; 2017 a. 55. The time limits in s. 973.076 are inapplicable to forfeitures of vehicles seized under this section. Sub. (4) (b) controls. State v. Elliot, 203 Wis. 2d 95, 551 N.W.2d 850

342.32 Counterfeiting and unlawful possession of certificate of title. (1) No person may counterfeit, possess, sell, offer for sale or supply a forged, fictitious, counterfeit, stolen or fraudulently or unlawfully obtained certificate of title or registration, manufacturer’s document of origin, instrument or other document that is or may be used as evidence of ownership, the transfer of ownership or the mileage disclosure of a motor vehicle. (2) Unless authorized by the department, no person may possess, sell, offer for sale or supply any blank certificates of title or registration, manufacturers’ documents of origin, instruments or other documents that may be used as evidence of ownership or registration of a motor vehicle. (3) Whoever violates sub. (1) or (2) is guilty of a Class H felony.

Curt R

 

There wasn't a VIN on any American cars before 1954.

There were serial numbers..
on frames,
on bodies,
on motors,
etc.

Rich

 

He still hasn't told us what kind of car it is.

 

Factory numbers on a glass car, sounds fishy

 

Agreed Rice n beans....

 

Wow; a member for over 7 years and this is the first post...

 

As Bruce has said, reattach the original "body tag" and get the thing registered.
After that, you might replace it with the reproduction depending on how you interpret the Wisconsin Vehicle Title Code quoted above:

" (b) A person who repairs a vehicle or vehicle part may remove and replace a decal that contains an identification number if the removal and replacement is reasonably necessary for the repair."

If the replacement is a true copy of the original and there is no attempt to deceive, it might be considered acceptable.
But again, do it after you get the mysterious unnamed vehicle registered.

 

I think that decal mention is for drivers door decals, like for warranty work or the ones that used to have the option codes and production dates on AMC's.

 

In most states messing with VIN numbers is a felony. Go to your DMV for guidance.

 

Yup, so the OP could be up for both a state and Federal felony charge.

A'll y'all give some pretty stupid advice about "skirting" the the law. The thing is, there is no "skirting". There is legal, and illegal, and the advice that may of you are giving is the latter.

That is not plain stupid. It is weapons-grade-stupid, and you should stop.