i am useing allmetal on my merc. the question is, everyone says i have to cover the allmetal with plastic filler before i prime it. why can't i use filler primer and skip the plastic filler?
What is ALLMetal??? If you meant (all metal) and had installed it professionally straight enough, There's no need to use a skim coat or plastic filler. That is needed only to allow you to block sand it straight.Am I following you thought correctly??
The size of the pinholes normally associated with Allmetal makes using a filler primer dangerous, because of solvent pop. You're better off leveling a thin (1/16") thinck skim coat over it to seal it and fill in any small pinholes before priming. Another alternative to Allmetal is PPG's Alumilight filler (if they still make it). I used it quite a bit in Autobody shop way back in high school, as a substitute for welding in new metal. Whoile it dries rock hard, the repair is about as good as filling a hole with PLastic filler (a no-no). Whay are you using Allmetal? Why not use regular filler or weld in patches on rusted out stuff?
Why are you using all metal? The stuff is rock hard, and prone to cracking. Just use a good, name brand, premium filler.
I think all metal is possibly the worst product one could buy for a filler. it isnt any kind of metal, so why the name? read its ingredients and you will see that its a joke. it will crack in extreme cold and will release from clean sanded bare metal-that cured it for me......
Im with these guys. just use a good brand filler. I used allmetal on the 57 i was working on. the day before i was going to paint it, i gave it a once over and right where i used allmetal there was a hairline crack. i had it all blocked out and everything, but out came the grinder and i did it all over agin. save your self some greefe, just use "bondo". its e z to sand too.
DO NOT USE ALLMETAL did you know: allmetal shrinks and expands in the sun showing all your lovely bodywork??? That stuff SUCKS also: if you dont mix in the hardner properly you'll end up with soft spots, theres no way of telling how much hardner you have and how well its mixed. USE Fiberglass short strand filler over welds.... then a lightweight body filler over everything else... Tuck
I used ALLMETAL 30 years ago and it cracked in various places. Never used it again. I can't beleive they are still selling that shit. Lanny
Yeah really guys- if we dont have an english wheel [and can use it] or if we aint workin for sports celebs'/movie stars -we may have to use some filler on our cars- it will last a long time if applied properly- probably as long as a paint job lasts. the longest any I applied lasted[that I saw] was 26 years.what the hell is wrong with that performance? sure real and perfectly straight metal is always best - [I agree], but realistically ,not always the end result.
i guess i should have given you more info. my car has no rust. i have 1 patch panel from a creased dent. i'm useing the all metal on the customized areas. the top, headlights, taillights, ect...... i'm not trying to patch holes with it. common practice around here is to use a fiberglass filler first and then skim coat with plastic to finish. i've seen many good results with this method. i was trying to one up that by useing the all metal instead of fiberglass. all of the good bodymen around here agreed that all metal was the better way to go but said they didn't use it because of the expence. i was told that the all metal won't pull away from the metal. i've taken it down to metal in these areas and roughed it with 36 grit sand paper then applied the all metal. i'm really trying to avoid the filler popping loose after it's painted. i've welded everything inside and out to make sure the custom work will hold together. i'm a beginner at body work so your thoughts and experiances in these ares is much appriciated.
Is this stuff anything like Metal to Metal? If so I use it around welds. I learned it from sevral of the welders around here. They use it when finishing out a weld that needs to look good and smooth. Like a flat bed for a truck or maybe a push guard. I use it on my frames or if I have a spot that looks to deep for bondo. If it's on the body I skin over with Bondo. I know a lot of big shops use it on frame work as well. And I believe it is mentioned in "How to Build a Trad. Hot Rod". I have never had any problems with it at all. Now Kitty hair on the other hand...
Yep, All Metal sucks. It can be used for sealing welds, but that is it. It's no good for custom work or any type of filling it sands shitty and then it cracks.
well i've got allmost the whole back window done in this shit. should i take it back out? and yes i've allready had some craking when i tapped down some high spots. that was worrying me already and it's not even done.
I have used it for a VERY thin coat over a weld to seal it. Followed by bondo. I also had an eight foot box side with a million pinholes through the metal. I skimmed it and the holes never reappeared. Also a very thin coating.... With any type of filler, less is best. When welding patch panels, I always check my welds by turning out the shop lights and pointing a spotlight at the welds. Check the backside and spot weld as necessary. Non accessable areas can be skimmed with lead for a better job.
thanks for all the help fellas, i'm concidering every post. looks like it might come back out. i hate to start over again. but it's better to do it now than wait till it's painted.
We could be wrong -I hope so for your part- [But I dont think so] its very brittle and has very little flex capability. I would almost be sure it will crack on your car.
i agree choprods, i've already decided to remove that shit and start over. i'm glad i asked, like i said better to do it now. hey i'm learning.
recently used fiberglass (my friend actually applied it) over the seams created when Radshit installed the olds head lights into my chev. I really like the results with the glass. FONZI
thanks fonzi thats the way i'm goin' next. should have went that way in the first place i guiess. after i get all this damn all metal off, thats a whole other job in itself.
If you are refering to Metal 2 Metal, I use it all the time. In my experience I have never had any trouble with it coming back. I use it to seal welds and usually do apply plastic filler over it. I prep my bare metal with 80-grit and wax and grease remover.
I have noticed that all you guys are in the middle of the country. Here in AZ it gets real hot in the summer. My pop's has restored two 55 fords and used all metal and real leading on his body work. The one 55 was done over 10 years ago and has been to its fair share of outdoor shows and driving a round and, has had zero problems and his body work is straight as an arrow. Just my two cents. No problems as of yet on any thing he as used all metal on.
yea metal to metal is another brand of the same thing. what really got me is when they started talking about fine cracks showing up. because mine has already started that.
thanks ron i was thinking the same thing. we have bad heat and humidity most of the summer. i'm starting to think that has somthing to do with it.
50mercfan I have talked to a lot of body men around these parts and they have said that they do not like to use it because, its not good for high production work in a shop where time is money. For the guy at home who has lots of time I think it works great. I think alot has to do with how you prep your surface. My pop's who has been doing body work as part of his hobby for 40 yrs always really roughs up the surface with like 36 grit and then begin the allmetal. I have seen him use the pink bondo as a final coat and other times not to finish his work. I will keep an eye on his 55 ford's and see if any thing changes, but after the car being done for over ten years, if nothing has happened now I doubt anything will ever will.
ron, the bodymen around here said about the same thing. mostly it's good stuff but hard to sand. do you know how thick your dads is, mine in some places around the rear window may be a 1/4" or a little more. i wonder if that has any thing to do with it. and i'm thinking that curing time might be a problem for some people. i was going to let it cure a long time like maybe a month before putting on the bondo. what do you think?
A 1/4" of anything is pretty thick.Is there a reason that you can't get the metal any closer than that?IMHO you need to grind it out and rework the metal to get it closer to being flat.
customcarpainter, in the top cornners of the rear window theres a dip. i didn't know how to fix it at the time. but i've read many articles since then and have decided to fix that area when i get the all metal back out. keep in mind that i'm not ron covell and this is my first attemp at any body work. i pounded all of my panels for the rear window out with a $9.00 set of body hammers and a 4" bunch vice. it took a long time but i got it pretty close except those two areas.
"We will do the repair of your rust outs with ALL METAL sir" ....hehehehe. Around these parts there are lots of rusty cars that need repair. The joke around here for more years than I can count was a manufacturer used a name that the quicky shops could use to sell their cheap repair work. Kind of sneaky way to mislead cutomers. Another example....."We don't use bondo here for your repair....we use ALL METAL!" Lots of consumers are easily mislead by dishonest shop managers...believe me. I don't think its right.... but it did and does happen. I use duraglass as a tight smear over welds prior to filler. I also clean and epoxy prime the metal and welds prior to application of filler materails for better bond and corrosion protection. Many great hitech products for todays bodyman to use. I won't get in to what my opinion is about using lead...... Steve
Just do your best. If the bondo gets a little thick, nobody will ever know. Do spend extra time making the work straight, because it will show if you don't. Be very careful to get the bondo edges feathered properly into the surrounding metal. The way I learned was to feather the edges first and then take down the center area. If you don't get it the first time, recoat the WHOLE area, not just the bad spot. It takes more time, but you will get a better finished product.
thanks hatch and mecutem, i've allready been joking with my buddies that i can atleast tell everyone my car is ALL METAL. yea i've been applying thin coats. it takes me 4 or 5 coats sometimes, very thin ones. i am taking my time and trying to make it straight, i'm not getting in any hurry. i want it right and i want it to stay. i was going to go with duraglass this time around. i'm starting to get the idea that all metal is good for small repairs and rusty floorboards. thanks for the feather the edge tip, that helps. i've allways wanted to do this kind of body work and figured everyone had to do thier first job at some point right? all of you guys have been very helpfull.
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