I've (sort of) started a build thread (stuffing a y-block in a Model A), but am looking for some tech advice. I've looked at other threads on mounting the rear rods like a front wishbone with a torque bar, but think the rods I have (Model A?) are a bit too wimpy. First: Any comments on the structural ability of these. Second: Any resto guys want to trade for something more substantial or buy? Thanks, RB
Those are 40's radius rods, still not up to the task of locating a rear axle on their own. Some sort of a torque arm will be needed.
How are the front of these rods being mounted? If you are tying them together with a single pivot point, like a stock front wishbone, AND combining them with a higher mounted torque arm, this could work. However, if you are planning to anchor the front end of these rods separately, even if you are using a torque arm, this is not the way to do it. If I understand your likely intent correctly, you will be anchoring the front of these separately and that will set up twisting forces that will initially bind the suspension and depending on range of movement, bend and/or break something. For a better explanation of the forces at work, I recommend you do a search here on GM "truck arms".......there is an active thread now and at least one older thread, that explains this pretty well. Ray
The front of the rear rods will be mounted as a single pivot point with a torque arm. My question is: Do these radius rods look to be substantial enough (at the rear) for a v-8, 5 spd and 3.55 posi? Thanks, RB
Not by themselves, in my opinion. But, with the addition of third arm (so called torque arm), they may be. Kinda depends on how hard you thrash it and how well the tires hook up. Ray
The Hot Rod Works offers parts that work with original "banjo" rear ends converted to open drive. http://www.hotrodworks.com/catalog/index.php?route=product/category&path=67 Will not work with your later rear end but the concept is valid. The Rolling Bones use stock radius rods that they modify into ladder bars. Another good idea.
check page 5, post #91of my build thread. not finished but you will get the idea. there will be a torque arm added but should work like the cup shaped end of a torque tube and trans coupler.
F6, Where did you get the uniball? I'm looking for 35/36 rear rods to work with. Just not comfortable with whatever I have. I will be adding a torque arm.
Here's a link to where I got it from: http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/Uniballs-p-202.html They aren't cheap at $100 but it's a real nice piece. The picture you see on that page is the Uni-Ball, the Uniball Cup and the High Misalignment Spacers.
the rollin' bones use 40 style radius rods as the basis for a ladder bar rear suspension with open drive do a search here and you should find pics or p.m. the guys over there.
I've seen them before and they are cool. I searched and couldn't find any pics though. Do they use a heim joint at the front? I think the Uni-Ball will work better than a heim in that position, allowing the rear wheels to move up and down just like a torque tube would.
I just updated my rearend with a wishbone constructed from a '48 front wishbone with a torque arm incorporated. Look here: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=654440
A torque tube didnt let the wheels/axle move up and down in the ch***is? if that were true there would be no need for a rear spring. not only does a torque tube let the axle move up and down, it lets one wheel go up and the other down when going over bumps/uneven pavement. that movement is also what causes the rods to bind and be stressed when they are split as well as pinion movement. the torque tube end and coupler are shaped like half a ball so the axle can move.
What you're describing is basically what I did....35/36 rear radius rods, but I added a pair of 'torque arms' to basically form ladder bars.......all rotate on a uniball. I got the uniball from a very generous HAMBer. Put out a want ad in the cl***ifieds here for whatever you need. Here's a pic....
Talk about a beefed up ch***is and suspension... I haven't done my top links yet, or braced the wishbone yoke...maybe I just found the blueprint
Regarding your question, the stock model A pieces are pretty wimpy. I wouldn't use them. Based on comments here on the HAMB, not through personal experience. I used a 48 Ford front wishbone to locate my rear axle, without a torque arm, by welding a ball mount cap into the crossmember and then using another bolt on cap to capture the ball. Rubber ball and grease - just like Henry made it. BUT, I have a 75hp banger/T-5/open drive. Much different load than what you are planning. The uniball or Johnny Joint (search this, they are cheaper from Currie enterprises) are used a lot on 4x4s, Jeeps, Rockcrawlers, etc. If I didn't do what I did, I would have used one of those. Plenty of articulation - I love the single point swivel design - no binding, no twisting metal - all goodness. I really like Voodootwin's setup. Gonna save that pic for future reference.
Oops. I didn't realize that's what he meant. That thing looks like it can take some serious HP. Nice!
Just to let everyone know thats interested in running this seat up suicidedoors.com has the superpivot balls for $44.99 they are curently redoing there website and have them listed out of stock but ive ordered many parts from the there a great supplier
Royal shifter, I've got WTB adds here and on the Fordbarn for '35/'36 rods. Still looking. I like voodootwins set up also. Looks beefy enough. I understand the concept of the front pivot point vs split rear bones and that's what I will achieve. I'm told what I have is '40ish rear rods, but even if I sawed some round or oval tubing in half lengthwise and welded top and bottom, I've still got some pretty slim brackets. So now working on the steering (another post). Thanks to all for the pics and opinions, this really helps. RB RB
I did the rear end to my modified very similar to the way you are thinking. I used some pre 40 rear radius rods and welded a threaded tube to accept a 3/4 inch aircraft quality Heim joint. The Heim joint mounts to the frame directly under the front drive shaft U joint. I made some adjusters that mounted to the top of the rear end housing that allows me to adjust the angle of the rear end. The early radius rods are not strong enough even for my little 2 liter banger and after a couple of months of driving they were starting to get a bow in them, I straightened them and added some more material in the critical area and now they are no problem. I drive the hell out of the car and this type of set up works pretty good, no swaying or funny stuff when you slide a corner at speed. One thing is that my car is less than 1500 lbs which helps. Rex
Probably the narrow wheels help in the slide! Got some '36 r rods, made up some brackets to bolt to the bars, weld to the rear. Thought 8" rear had 3" tubes, but no a bit smaller dia., which turns out OK since the 3" holesaw leaves a bit of "slop" to turn the bars in and give me an angle to fill with weld rather than a **** joint. Looking at the Johnny Joint from Currie to mount under the x-member and also tie a torque rod to it like some of the prior pics. Any other thoughts?? And thanks for all the help here. RB
The only thing I can add, if not posted already, is that when you make the plates to hold the 35/6 arms to the axle tubes, you can adjust ride height by how tall they are. The stock 35/6 brackets leave the two bolts in line with the centerline of the axle tubes. My car has much longer plates to lower the car (with the 40 front spring mounted in the rear 32 crossmember).
F&J, Finally dawned on me that you're using the spring hangers on the radius rods, wearas I've got the spring over rear "A" setup and longer plates would only put the bars closer to the ground. RB
Next question. How do you account for alignment changes on the solid rods to the x-member. The "traditional" measure X3 for the reversed stock wishbone ball? It seems like once the rods are attached to the rear, that's it. Wondering if adjustable heim/clevis joints on the rod ends to a johnny joint/uniball at the front? Trying to get the rear end square to the frame with transverse spring and keep it that way. Sorry for so many tech issues, but I get to thinking and then.... Thanks, RB
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