Another good question. Im no expert on the subject but i do have some opinions based on hands on experiences. The front and rear suspensions to me are equally important. They have to work together. Struts are a relatively new thing. From hot rods beginning the straight axle was used on everything from slower cars to the fastest dragsters well into the 70s. They are fairly simple. The wheels are always pointed straight forward. The toe doesnt change. Setting up the axle layed back for positive caster and the car will almost drive itself straight down the track. Good double adjustable shocks help. The rear can get a little more complicated. With the modern advancements in four link designs any car using one should be able to get down the track. It all depends on how much effort you are willing to put into it. I have a computor program that lets me plot out all the holes on the brackets. I can print out instant centers i think would work. Basically thats how far forward and how high off the ground the bars meet at a imaginary point. I bring my print outs to the track. Then the fun begins. Runs are made for a base line. Changes are made and recorded. Video is used to make shock and spring adjustments. We are primarily interested in the first 60 feet. Most guys look at their friends cars and figure it should be good for them. Most dont take the time to lay on hot asphalt for a few weekends making changes to ring out every last bit of a short 60 foot time. Even fewer rescale their cars through out the season or stay on top of the maintenance required for consistancy. Usually after 5-10 passes and the car should be well on its way to being dialed in. As far as how much et i will loose im not sure. I want a older look. If speed and et were all i was concerned about the car would have a late model hemi with a five disc clutch on a timer along with 98% in the tank with the mag at 50+ degrees. That would over come any front suspension issues.
The front suspension also has to work on the road....which is something you don't have to worry about on most drag cars.
Jim makes a very good point. I did not address street driving. The hair pin setup im using is not braced in the middle. It will have some flex capabilities this way. The four link is better for the street because it can allow the suspension to roll. Think about going up drive ways. Steep ones can cause a bind. A four bar on the front would have the same advantages as the rear. I just dont want that look. Its all a bunch of compromises and how much your willing to exept. I do drive mine on the sreet so finding a balance i can live with is important. If the car wasnt going to be as light as we anticipate and mounted the axle rigid we could not have used the anglia spindles.
Lots of good reading, and track experience shows through. No bragging, no blsht hype, just straight to the point with top notch effort. I like your style a lot.
Thanks. We all learn as we go. Im learning alot from this build also. There are several things im trying here that i have not done before. My friend nitro neal probably said it best. He said brian you are casting it out pretty darn far. I agree i am. But i think with proper planning along with some huge effort the goals set will be reached. Having a nitro street car has always been a dream of mine. If i fail it wont be from a lack of effort. If it was easy everyone would be doing it. Stay tuned there is more fun on the way.
Another follow up to jims post regarding street driving. I should have mentioned caster settings. Too little caster makes for top end instability. Too much makes it very difficult to turn. Again there needs to be a balance. A modern car with a independant suspension would have about 1/2-3/4 positive caster. A all out dragster would have about 15 degrees. More than that can cause the wheels to flop over. Im planning around 7-8 positive caster. Thats what i had in the 65 and it worked good. The heims do provide some adjustment. For a comparison jim how much do you have in the nova?
I think that everyone following this build is seeing that it is a astounding amount of planning, thinking, and work to make everything work together . And run street and strip. Like you said Brian, if it was easy everybody would do it. The HARD, is what makes it GREAT!
Thanks mike. Above all the build has been fun so far. While some times frustrating and time consuming it is still fun. There is nothing i would rather do right now.
The progress seems to go in streaks. Right now im on a hot one. I stopped at the chassis shop to get a few more pics of the axle in the mill and check on the progress. I was surprised to see it by the car with the spindles attatched. The fit is perfect. The bottom perch area still needs to be machined. We are holding off on that until we have the bat wings in our hand. We have the spec but want to be safe. When the hair pins show up hopefully friday we will mock up the front end. This will be done off the frame jig. The ride height will be setup. The jig will go into the rear end so the wheels can be bolted on. A pair of car stands will hold up the front of the frane. We can then determine where we want the front axle and establish a wheelbase. This may happen on saturday. We will get a good look at how this will all turn out. I also stopped at the body shop. They are making good progress. Dick painted a panel for me. The color in the middle is a mix of the ones on the ends. Im liking the one on the left. Lastly the ring gear i needed for the lenco that allows me to connect it to the bruno is on the way. I have been waiting for one since october. We are on a good roll i hope it continues.
X2 for the one on the left. Cant wait to see this car again in person, either at the Meltdown or Iron Invasion.
its hard to get a good pic of the paint. it looks different in different light. so i figured i would just take the panel outside and get a better look. the pics on the computer don't reflect the pop this paint has. there is a lot of green here so i thought about breaking it up some. I'm still going over ideas on what color i want on the fire wall. i have thought about a flattened black or the creme it had. I'm struggling with the interior color. I'm not sure what color I'm going with on the dash. most of the interior will be covered in aluminum. I'm not sure if the dash should match the fire wall. i don't want to bring in too many colors. i don't want this to look like a circus wagon. i plan on keeping the panel in my truck for a while. that way i can observe it in varying light conditions. i might reach out to the photo shop thread to see if anyone there can play with the colors. all ideas are appreciated lets hear your thoughts.
IMHO... With that bright a green, interior should be white, or a mostly white pattern. Off white is fine. Any other color would clash - maybe a beige could work, but anything dark would look dull. Anything very bright would clash. Chrome trim perhaps to break up side panels? Firewall is allowed to clash color-wise, but should be toned down to show off engine. Dark green? Or body paint with flattener?
look at page one post one. i was thinking of just swapping the orange to green. there is a piece of trim that breaks up the fire wall. there is also trim on the bottom of the body. i might loose the scallops. one thing for sure there will be some gold leaf on the car behind the doors. it will be s/fc for a fictitious class. street -fuel-coupe. there wasn't a class for street driven fuel coupes back in the day so I'm making up my own. most won't know any way.
Your build thread is really detailed and informative. I thank you again for putting the time into the clear explanations of the how's and why's. Not to jump ahead but you were planning on a torsion bar front end...like a double bar set up parallel to the axle, axle out front with lever arms to the axle?
The biggest green area is the doors, so some gold there would break it up nicely. Maybe someone can photoshop it for you? I wonder what that wide belt line would look like a bit darker, or gold. I looked at the pics on the first post of this thread, and replacing the orange with the green would work good to my eye. I agree the roof scallops probably would not fit with green paint. I liked the touch of body color up front, and on the engine. (I once saw an axle painted body color and I liked it. Could also look bad, depends on lots of things.)
its funny you mention a darker color on the body line. i have discussed that with my pin striper. i threw out the idea of the belt line being a darker green with heavier flake. i think the texture change might look good. i also mentioned i want to keep it from looking like a stripe. i asked how it would look if it was done with a 60s custom flavor to it. i don't think spider webbing or lace would look good but maybe marballing it with a plastic bag might be the answer. i also need to think about the engine color. orange won't work now. i spent most of saturday removing the orange paint from the valve covers. i plan on not painting them this time around. i think it would look more hard core race as compared to the show car look. besides being a pain to keep up. big drag yes that torsion bar set up is the plan. coil overs or any kind of leaf springs i think will make the front end look busy once the head lights are added. the torsion bars are hidden inside the frame. only the links are exposed. the other plus is it kind of has a mopar theme with the torsion bars.
I like the look of torsion bars. Is everything custom or will it utilize off-the-shelf parts. The sprint car guys have some trick light weight stuff, I was thinking the adjusters your arms will probably be custom? This is a Maxim chassis set-up.
We have a guy in indiana we are working with. He makes the bars. It should look similiar to your pic. I hope we can use some off the shelf parts if not we will just make what we need.
Love the work on the front axle! I've never understood why what you are making hasn't been commercially available in the past. Gary
Anglia spindles were usually used on funny cars or altered. to use them the car has to be under 2500 lbs. there was not much demand for their use on street cars.
...Jim,...I think you have one of the best memories on the HAMB! RacerX,...I've watched your coupe evolve over a lot of years;...guess it's still evolving,...nice work for sure.
You mean with all the wheel standing and front end's smashing back to ground those spindles wouldn't hold up on a street driven Model A? I sure hope so. I'm planning a similar, custom axle with IH / sprint car spindles. Bad idea? Gary
im not sure what ih spindles are. im using stilletto brand spindles. stillettos are forged chromoly. they are good for a 2500 car max that has a front suspension. these are the strongest Anglia spindles made. I bought mine from the chassis shop in Michigan. they have a on line catalog. on this thread I posted in detail how to attatch brakes to them. some welding is required. if these are not strong enough then the ford and chevy spindles can handle more weight.
I got up early this morning to brave the zero degree temp and drive down to the chassis shop. The frame was just taken off the frame jig. This was going to be a exiting day. I assembled and mocked up the front end. While doing this i found out the steering arms wont attatch to the spindles. The arm is hitting the brake hat. Its not a big deal a little clearence is all thats needed. Then i found out the castle nuts are too long that hold the wheel to the spindle. The cotter pin holes are covered up. Again no big deal. easily fixed. The ride height was then set. Its very close in these pics. It still needs to go down a slight amount. The grille and moon tank were then put is place. They were both moved around and viewed from several angles. Nothing is in its final location yet. This was just a rough mock up. The torsion bar should arrive on monday. Once the axle is in place most of the hard work will be done. So far everything seems to fit ok. the car looks so much different off the frame table. I'm very happy with everything. I also stopped by my local ppg dealer. I was given some glass flake. I got gold and clear. I will have dick split into three ways the darker green panel that was just painted. The flake will get added to the clear then sprayed. I want to see if i get any extra pop out of the paint. I also want to see if the color changes adding the different color flake.
i don't know. i didn't ask. its there to get some updates on the rear end. i was told the car has been raced since day one. it has always been in the kenosha area. the owner recently bought it for his daughter to drive. it has a sbc in it. as soon as i heard that i payed no more attention to it.
That looks great sitting on the ground! Not sure if it's an optical illusion without the body on, but did you stretch out the nose from the earlier configuration?
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