rebuilding after the crash

I'm curious what makes it illegal and for safety reasons??

 

Too rigid of a connection, I'm sure, but I'll stick with soldering anyways... Hasn't failed me yet.
Dumb luck is better than none at all. IMO
As long as you take the stress off of the connection, what's the problem?

 

Two things. One, solder doesn't withstand heat well. A solder joint can start failing at as low as 300 F, by the time you reach 400+ it will have started to run out of the joint, promoting more heat from the now-poorer connection. Now you have a wire that may be loose and if it's still hot, may arc against something. Not to mention that it may be hot temp-wise enough to start a fire.

Two, the heat needed to get a proper solder joint on copper removes the annealing from the wire. This makes it much more prone to breaking, especially under vibration or bending, right at the point where the solder ends. Understand that it probably won't just break off; more likely is you'll lose a few strands, it'll start to run hot and it'll probably be a toss-up whether it melts first before all the strands break. You can mitigate this with heat shrink, but it's important that you use shrink that is as thick or thicker than the wire insulation to transfer the stress away from the wire onto the insulation. You really should do this whatever connection method you use. If you get into some mil-spec stuff that uses solder, you'll find that they require mechanical support within a few inches of the solder joint to prevent all movement.

Keep in mind that ALL wires 'vibrate', even if no mechanical source is present. The act of switching power on causes inrush current in every circuit. Small current, no visible movement. Larger currents will produce more, much like what your garden hose does when you apply pressure. If you've ever seen a downed utility line thrash around, that's the same forces at work, just an extreme example.

Technical - Crimping Tutorial | The H.A.M.B. (jalopyjournal.com)

 

Wow great explanation. There are so many fields of expertise on the hamb.
I solder them and shrink wrap with a snap on tool that does not use a flame. It's more like a pen with a hot tip. I don't like using a torch.
My connections are almost always inside the car away from heat. Most race cars that see alot of use get re wired every few years.

 

I'll add a few more comments... First, it's important that I noted that 'field installed' solder connections are illegal. There are cases where soldered connections are legal, but they're almost always restricted to use in 'approved ***emblies', i.e. factory-built and UL/CE listed as being safe. Once that ***embly reaches the jobsite, any further connections must be either a barrel crimp termination or a mechanical screw terminal or a combination of both. The 'open' style crimps that many of the aftermarket harness suppliers use in their kits (and are used by the automotive OEMs) also fall into this category. Acceptable as part of an approved ***embly as above, but I have NEVER seen these installed for field connections.

Second, it's also important to note that there is NO overall authority governing automotive electrical practices for either safety or suitability unlike almost all other uses, although that may change with the increasing production of electric vehicles. So the vast majority of bits we use to build our harnesses are re-tasked items from some other part of the industry. One problem here is much of this is for 'low voltage applications' such as telecommunications, alarm systems, computer networks, etc etc, and the people doing the 're-tasking' aren't always aware of these limitations. You say 'well, my car is only 12 volts so these should be fine'. But what's not mentioned is most of these systems are current limited, with most limited to 50 milliamps maximum. The reason for this is it's been found that current above this level can interfere with your heart rhythm, so below that it's 'safe'. That's only 5 hundredths of an amp (.05), well below any circuit current you'll find in our vehicles. A high current circuit would be 2 amps. Most of these connectors simply aren't rated for the currents we see, so use caution when selecting parts.

 

So,,,,are you saying that the industry doesn’t trust the technicians to solder correctly in the field,,,,,so they only allow crimp or screw connections ? Is that why it’s illegal in the field ?

Tommy

 

I believe he is referring to "low voltage" wiring with respect to the National Electrical Code. Low voltage being things like audio, door bell, t-stat and control lines.

Soldering is a delicate operation. Heat is the culprit. Too much or too little cause innumerable problems. I am/was a certified multi-level circuit board repair person, basic soldering techniques are paramount to effective repairs. Having said that, my 36 has been operating quite nicely with multiple solder connections. The car was built before aftermarket kits were readily available (1976 - 1980). It has a 65 Buick fuse panel with multiple solder connections to all the outlying end users (lights, ignition etc.) with no issues. Mind you my skill levels were used extensively during my Navy career and continue to be at a high level. So, I have no problem with solder connections, I also have no problem with crimped connections as well. In both uses you need to be mindful of protection from the environment they will be used in.

 

While I suspect that may enter into the decision, that's not the main reasoning. Keep in mind that the NEC and UL have literally decades of experience with what works and formulate their rules accordingly. Solder was the most common method for splicing and some terminating up until the early '50s but it wasn't without its issues. While reasonably reliable, failures were known for at least the reasons given above. Crimps were around in the '30s, but the additional inventory and tooling needed limited its adoption to manufacturers and marine/aircraft, plus it didn't work with the cheaper solid wire commonly used in most installs. Wire nuts arrived in quan***y the late '40s and quickly proved their superiority over solder in term of over-all reliability. Once that superiority was known, solder was phased out.

And solder has no inherent electrical advantage in any case. While a case can be made that it offers a lower resistance over a crimp or screw/bolt connection, the difference is so small that you'll need sensitive laboratory equipment to measure it. For our uses there is no difference electrically.

 

I usually if I can crimp the connector with a good pair of pliers designed for crimping terminals. Then I carefully solder the connector with my snap on torch. There is no flame just a hot tip. What do you think of this procedure? I have never had a connection come apart or break.

 

It's the heat needed to get a good solder joint that causes the damage. Whether an open flame is used or not makes no difference. Want a graphic demonstration of the difference?

Take two 18-20" lengths of same-gauge wire (using #16 or 14 will speed the process). Strip the wire, being careful not to nick the strands. Solder one into a connector (add a crimp if you like, it won't matter), crimp the other one with a proper indent crimper as shown in the linked tutorial. Clamp the connector in a vice and keeping tension on the wire, bend the wire back and forth in about a 120 degree arc, counting the repe***ions until the wire breaks. Repeat for the other wire. Guess which one will break off first...

When these crimp connectors showed up in the auto parts stores, they were invariably the insulated type (and usually still are). The store then sold you a 'crimper' for these using a football-shaped crimp jaw so as not to damage the insulator too much. These couldn't achieve a 100% crimp, it was more like 85%. This allowed corrosion into the joint, sometimes the wire could pull out. So their reputation suffered compared to solder joints. Guys got into the habit of soldering them, which cured the poor crimping method, but opened the door for breakage at the solder/wire junction.

I don't solder for these reasons. There's no electrical gain to be had over a properly done crimp, but you have introduced an additional 'fail factor' with solder that wasn't there with just the crimp. Yes, this can be addressed with proper strain relief and preventing vibration of the wire, but that's a bunch of extra work for no good reason...

Old habits can be hard to kill...

 

This is the style of crimper I use. Is this the best one out there? If not do you have a make and model?

 

I’m not smart enough to know how to post a link with my cell phone, but search this ***le and you will see the Thomas & Betts crimper is highly rated not only by hobbiest’s but pros too.

 

The grid is all set up. It's ready. Weather permitting we plan on being at Kaukauna Wisconsin for the ghost rods event this weekend for a few hits.

 

Here's what I use....
Vintage Thomas & Betts Hand Crimper Pliers, Wiss Wire Cutters, Robi Wood Chisel | eBay
another one...
Thomas & Betts Co Crimpers for T&B STA-KON LUG WT-111-M Pliers Cutters | eBay
Both of these are WT-111 models, the first version (in spite of the listing #). Long discontinued. Both look to be in good shape, may need to oil the pivot and 'work' it if stiff. My first choice, every time.

The current version is WT-111M, which has only two indents instead of three and also cuts. There are a bunch of those for sale on eBay. These will also work. Expensive new.

 

I love the fact that someone said there was a better way to do your wiring and instead of dismissing them because your way has worked fine before, you were just like "lay it on me." Good stuff.

 

Right or Wrong, I use a ratcheting crimper with interchangeable dies at work. They are inexpensive and easy to use. I know that there are better brands, but this is what I was given to use. The MSD spark plug wire crimper is a similar style, just a different color.

https://eclipsetools.com/default/300-054.html



https://eclipsetools.com/default/cable-crimping-tool/lunar-series-crimp-dies.html

 

We used Klein tools in the maufacturing of reefer semi trailers https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/combination-cutting-tools/crimping-and-cutting-tool-connectors

 

I use the same tool, I have multiple dies for different terminals. It works very good. I am in the crimp camp, no solder.

 

As a power plant electrician for over 45 years and one who also worked in the nuclear industry there is a proper crimper for each lug, Insulated or non insulated. I have at least 5 crimpers which are brand specific for their own lugs.
I prefer un-insulated and the T&B crimper for automotive use. I also heat shrink them when needed.
The only wire I will solder is battery cables and I use only welding cable for these. One of the main reasons for this is the lack of the very large crimper needed.

 

The Klein tool will work, and Ideal makes a very similar model. Both are considerably less money than the currently-offered T&B WT-111M. But if I can track down a good-condition WT-111 version, I'll take that over the others every time. The reason is the finished appearance of the crimp. While the Klein, Ideal and latest T&B only have one or two crimp positions, the early version has three; 10-12, 14-16, and 18-22. This introduces much less distortion into the crimp (mostly in the smaller sizes). It also has a wider 'anvil' supporting the crimp, again reducing distortion. Functionally, all will produce a good crimp, but the WT-111 will turn out a 'prettier' crimp.

 

View attachment 6078255 What do you do with old hemi nitro pistons with pinched rings? Made a cell phone holder for the shop. It sits high enough to plug in the charging cable. It also sits in a way I can grab it. I can see the phone light up from across the room if I have head phones on and can't hear it. My buddy came up with the idea. I might sell some at the track. View attachment 6078254 View attachment 6078254

 

Howard is always thinking!

 

It was Jerry. I p***ed by a small car show in franksville last Saturday and saw your car there. I didn't stop

 

Unfortunately the Forcast isn't working out so we are staying home. We will try again soon.

 

The only good thing about a rain out is I didn't break anything and I don't have to spend all week servicing the car. Instead of going north to the track I went west to the Mississippi River and met up with my one month old grandson.

 

We are going to try again. Weather is perfect. 70s sunny and dry for a change.

 

“Paladin” makes one of these that I like a little better… I have this one too and even trying 3 different makes of similar dies (b type like your picture) it doesn’t seem to crimp as cleanly as the Paladin my old man has. Glad you mentioned the MSD crimper… it’s expensive and not proprietary like the magazine articles and TV shows seem to suggest.

 

First p*** destroyed the tires.
A decision was made to leave in second gear. Nice 1/8 mile p***. Very calm off the line.
Third p***. Added 3 percent nitro up to 83. Left in second gear. 7.17/192mph.
No color on the plugs. When they are rich they feel like a Rev limiter came on. I couldn't make the shift light come on at 7400 rpm.
Now it's time to return some fuel on the high side. Leaning it out will really raise the rpm and mph. The et will drop big time.
It was a good day. No broken parts. No wall s****es. No rods hanging out of the block. It's funny how nitro guys judge a good day. Video on Facebook.

 

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=482060507613952