Technical Rebuilt 302 has no get up! Help.

Ok, just took my car up the road. Put it in 1st and it eventually climbed to 5000 rpm. And it ran like dog sh*t ! I have to re-adjust the rockers and probably retime it. 4:11 gears will be ordered next week.

 

At those RPMs, even with the tall gears you have, the car should not be sluggish.
I’d hold off on the gears just yet, look deeper into the engine.
Ie land speed cars have healthy engines and run tall gears. They are certainly pulling well at those RPMs.

 

OP confirmed in post 113 that he installed a flat tappet cam/lifters he already had on hand. Then he drove the car, held it in first and it revved to 5k but ran poorly. As many have mentioned, diagnose the motor first. Something is drastically wrong for a fresh motor to run like dog shit.

 

Exactly...at this point the problem is not the cam, unless it's installed WAY wrong. And folks...the man said he is NOT using roller lifters on a flat tappet cam. It's a proper matched set.
There is most certainly something wrong here that will not require gears or converter to fix. After it's running well, then is the time to think about that stuff.

 

My money's on ignition...

 

Exactly. Those tall gears are really only going to hurt you during the launch from a stop. The engine should still feel strong from 2000 RPM’s and up. Something else is amiss.

 

Have you tried playing with the ignition timing yet? Try advancing it 5 degrees and see if it runs stronger.

 

My moneys on a multitude of things.

 

That is a pretty safe bet.

 

Any gear lower than what he has would help . Even 308's would be a major help.

I'm running 4.11's on 295/50-15 tire with about a .80 OD and
On the interstate were the fast lane is running 80 or more these days I'd rather have a 3.73 gear even when I'm running only 70.
I drive it a fair amount and it's not horrible but I'd not want to go on a 1500 mile road trip.

The OP would want a gear change even with out OD and gear change is advisable.

He has something else wrong if it won't make power at 5000 rpm also.
I had 2.56 gears in a Chevelle years ago with a m22 and a SBC with a really big cam ( this was while the 350 geared rear was broken) and while not particularly quick It would pull hard all the way up to faster than I wanted to go .

If it was mine I'd check cranking compression, ( cam being retarded) check for vacume leaks, verify TDC is were the marker indicates and then recheck and adjust timing and verify initial and total timing .
Is that a vacuum secondary 600 I didn't look . Are the secondaries even opening with the big cam with lower vacuum? Check the vacuum I'd verify there opening under load not free reving .
They generally will not open unless the engine is under load. My vettes 600 won't open unless it's under load.

Is the power valve right ? Is it jetted right ? If it's the same set up from the stock engine ? If so it's most likely wrong now.
I'm a big fan of those carbs on engine this size for mild street use but he has big race cam running a economy carb on low to midrange Performer intake in a heavy car with a horrible gear choice on taller tires with a automatic and very tight converter . The compression ratio is also to low for this cam A RV cam would have been a better choice .

I'm a bit surprised it idles in gear with that converter . Does it ?

For the car to be at its best IT will need gears , stall, likely more compression, then a bit bigger carb to let that cam make better power at a RPM it likely won't be driven at 99% of the time
OR
It needs a correct cam for a heavy car with a stock stall and still needs gears likely 3.50-1 or lower to make the OD advantageous. Then the intake and carb would be OK.

 

I agree. I'd look at if the secondaries are opening.
Power valve opening,
Otherwise he has a 300 CFM carb

Obviously ignition timing .

 

Just note his AOD is 0.63:1 in overdrive, yours is 0.80
So he is better off with 4.10's

His car should run like a scolded cat if held in 1st from 35mph onwards. Something is fundamentally wrong .

A compression test, and vacuum test is needed .[cranking pressure tells a lot]
A stopper down #1 plug hole to find true TDC and some timing tape would help.
I would even test it with open headers [to eliminate a blocked exhaust issue]

And pull the plugs and read them
And even if/when the cam is changed! this one should be degreed before it is removed to see if it was the problem.

The problem will be simple but he will need to "go through the motions" to find it.

I've had a brand new set of NGK Iridium plugs fail before, and I only found this problem by swapping over plugs from an identical car and the fault changed vehicles.
On my Chevy , my brand new engine wouldn't rev [almost like it had a governor controlling it] This was caused by a brand new condenser ,so I saved the old GM condenser from the trash

So don't assume new parts are always OK

 

I would just change to an E303 cam, trick flow heads, 4.11 rear end...

A fun mustang to drive was something along those lines, it was a fun car to drive.

 

He doesn’t need to make changes before he fixes what he has, if the cam, gears or whatever is wrong it still should run at 3000 /5000 rpm. Dial it in first then make make changes in the combination to work in the rpm range needed.

 

Are you sure that the distributor is wired to match the cam? If you haven't done it yet, I would pull the valve covers and distributor cap, then check to make sure that the rotor is in the right position when the corresponding intake valve opens. I've never seen a motor run if it was that far out of time. However, a previous poster said he had a 302 wired for the wrong cam and it ran, but not well.
Sure, a guy told you that you have such and such a cam. Do you believe everything somebody tells you? Trust but verify. I spent a lot of years in the parts business and saw more screwups from wrong parts like this than I care to think about. Just because it's in a box with a label that shows a part number, or even if it's stamped with a number, it doesn't mean it's the right one. Stuff gets misboxed/mislabeled all the time. If it was from a buddy's parts stash, he might have innocently told you wrong.
It won't cost anything to check this out, plus you can observe the rocker action and see any symptoms of a flat cam. Hate to bring that up, don't want to jinx you, but you have to consider all possibilities.

 

I agree, easy enough to check and at no cost, I also think it should pull good at 3000+ rpm regardless of weight and gears
Dan

 

NEW is short for Never Ever Worked. Unfortunately you can't trust a new part before you've verified it works.

 

If your on a budget there’s nothing wrong flat tappet cams. Both mine have solid flat tappets. Check the lash once a year and your good to go.

 

Just a one example: i had a 350 olds lo comp pistons, smog heads and thicker than original head gaskets. previous owner was looking all sorts of things why it was so lo power.
I checked and got 90psi comp ressure.
I did quick and "wrong" fix.
Take heads to machine shop and milled 0.080 out.
After that it was 170psi and got very decent power.

 

What does the engine do when you put the trans in neutral and just try reving it? Does it labor or rev like a normal engine? Second thing I would try is putting jack stands under the back of the car so the wheels are several inches off the ground..........and there is nothing to hit if it falls off the jack stands. Then try putting it in gear and see how it winds up in gear but without dealing with the weight of the car. Does it seem to accelerate normally when you tromp the gas........or does it labor? Before you go switching rear ends, you need to determine if you have an engine problem. One other question comes to mind. Camshafts have to be compatible with the gear material on the distributor. Is the flat tappet cam gear compatible with the distributor gear for the roller cam you removed? OEM roller cams are a different material from flat tappet cams.

Summit says.......
Gear Materials
If the distributor gear is softer than the cam, it’ll wear out quickly. If it’s harder than the cam, the cam gear will wear out (which is a more expensive repair). Ideally, the distributor gear should be slightly softer.


Distributor gears are available in four different materials: composite (light, durable, and soft), bronze (for use with billet steel cams), cast iron (for use with cast iron, flat tappet cams), and melonized or hardened steel (the hardest material, used for OEM replacements). For a more complete explanation of the materials and their compatibility, check out our Help Center article.

 

Cam could be a tooth retarded on the timing chain. Not likely, but has been known to happen. Why I always roll the crank over 720 deg. and double check that the timing marks lined up after installation.
I had a poc SBF with a lot of miles on it as a daily driver years ago. Driving to work one day and it suddenly went from being a pretty peppy motor to a dog instantly. It got me to work and then tore I it down when I got home. Timing chain had slipped...

 

What full roller cam would you guys suggest?
EDL- 60259 heads
60cc
2.020 intake valves

 

Stock Ford H.O. will run very well with your setup.

 

Do you happen to have a part number? Thanks

 

That all depends on what you want out of the car or intended purpose.

 

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mel-syb-51

How’s this cam?

 

That is a good choice [if you still have all the lifters, dog-bones, spider plate, pushrods, distributor gear, and thrust plate]
With roller cams you can swap the cam and still use the same lifters.

Have you given your engine a compression test yet ???????????????????????????????
This ^^ is a telltale if the cam timing is off [advancing can help]

You can [And SHOULD] degree the cam ,or at least measure it. This can be done with the engine in place.
I doubt if it has chewed a lobe [this is quite audible]

edit: I hope it could be this simple .... Throw another set of plug leads on it [even borrowed off another car] especially if they are suppressor leads.

 

It’s been mentioned before, but something is amiss with the rebuild. Did you install the current cam, or was it done during the rebuild?
I’d suggest to verify it’s installed correctly before dropping the $$ on a new cam.
If it’s not pulling well above 3k RPMs, something is not correct with the engine setup.
But my advice is worth what it is, free

 

Please tell us more about the distributor and coil you're using. As I'm doing the math here, 2+2=10... Something is not adding up. When you hold it in low gear, it still won't RPM. I don't care what the gear ratio is or what the stall is on the converter, RPM is RPM, when you reach the Cam's power range it should start to pull like a bitch, you'll just be going faster.

 

I’m starting to think a tooth off retarded on the cam gear. It will run but really dead…