My daily driver is my 61 Falcon Wagon. During the Round Up, people kept asking if thats where I was going. I would say, no, I drive this every day. I didnt even go to the round up.
But the only reason they get decent gas milage with a four cylinder car is because of the total weight of the vehicle and look what your giving up for milage, your safety for one, now we have all seen bad accidents were it was hard to see what kind of vehicle it was. The government is partly to blame for it they keep telling the auto makers that 15 20 mpg is not acceptable so the auto makers get rid of more weight by eliminating steel and adding aluminum and plastic, no that's not for me give me a good old piece of detroit's iron I wan't to give my children evey chance of survival in a crash especially in this chaotic world we live in where people are so consumed by todays technologies like texting whoever and not paying attention to their driving and they run lights and veer off the road and if they don't kill themselves they kill some innocent person or child. Now i'm not passing judgement on anyone for the cars they drive it's an individuals right to drive what they want, I'm just saying it's not right for me.
It takes 70 barrels of oil to build a car. Hybrids are a net energy looser. The oil consumed on all the exotic metals makes it more eco friendly to drive a pick up or an SUV. The EPA types simply look at old data about tail pipe emission and 30 year old data. Any how, how many hot rods have poor running smoking engines?
In 1976 I thought I worked my ass off long enough that I deserved a brand new truck so I went down to my local Chevy Dealership and ordered a brand new 4X4 stepside in December of 1975 I ordered it with a/c, power steering and tilt wheel and that was it. I picked it up the last day of March 1976 I Payed $5,380.72 out the door, I drove 8,025 miles without any problems then one day I was exiting the freeway when rod #3 decided to break which destroyed the engine so I had it towed back to the dealer where I purchased it they had it a week putting in a new 350 and that was just the begining. so to make a long story short this is what was replaced: Engine Electronic Module, Left Front Spindle Transmission Transfer Case-Partial Speedometer Oil Pump-separate from the new engine Cruise Control-Partial And believe it or not this all happened within the 12,000 mile warranty so needless to say that truck left a bad tast in my mouth and I have never bought another one since, I will only buy old ones now. I have a group site I started to preserve the 1949-54 All Steel Wagons (tin woody) & Sedan Deliveries built by GM. If anyone cares to take a look and is already a member just go to this link: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/group.php?grouped=515
Hey Brad54 you do know that my post was all in favor of driving older vehicles or recycling ones out of a scrap yard and that I was trying to show people they have an option to not buying a new vehicle by choice. I'm commending you on your choices.
Yeah. I've preached it for years too. Writing for car magazines, I think it's important to support the hobby on a daily basis, not just when we write about putting bigger brakes or a sway bar on a car because "it'll be better." By the same token, it's real easy for me to be a cheerleader for people getting out and DRIVING their junk, and yes, sometimes fixing it on the side of the road, rather than trailering it somewhere because they don't think an old car is capable of it. I've rebuilt brakes in parking lots and driven over 200 miles with a zip tie for a fuel pump. It goes with the territory sometimes. I'm a car guy... I make my living promoting this hobby. So for me, driving something vintage is a natural choice. It might be a "lead by example" kind of thing, but that's not why I do it... I do it because I dig old vehicles, and I love being a car guy. -Brad
Yeah Brad I know what your saying, awhile back I was on my way to Canada in my 64 VDub Bus, well I started up a long hill climb on interstate 5 North and the engine lost so much compression I didn't have any choice but to pull over in a truckers parking lot, now I had the money and the means to have it towed to a repair shop and have it fixed but that's not who I am I have always done the repairs on my own vehicles. So here I am in a truck stop in Cowlitz Washington underneath the bus looking at the problem when I find that the head had pulled studs so I removed the rocker shaft, took my torque wrench out started to re-torque the head and just hope the studs didn't pull out the rest of the way and the only light I had was a flashlight stuck in my mouth with spit running down both sides and a small light coming from a hamburger shack for the truckers about 75 ft. away when all of a sudden my bus seemed to light up like downtown Las Vegas what happened was a trucker saw I was having problems and he swung his rig around and turned all his foward lights on, it was a godsend. Well I finished and continued on my trip to Canada and for the next 3 months I had no problems for the rest of the trip. I fixed it proper like when I returned home so I too live and breathe old vehicles and I do practice what I preach.
Love the old stuff.....one of the nice things about California....it doesn't rust (as much). I drive an 84 CJ....I'll never get rid of it....though it does have a newer FI SBC in it....and I do have a 67 MGB waiting for me and my young boys to restore....what better way for them to learn...about the time it's done, they will be of driving age (oh lord)... But for my wife? She gets a new car....I don't want her to have to worry about reliability...
This statement interested me, so I looked into it a bit. My first thought was that any car is a net energy loser, as is anything else that doesn't output energy, so unless I'm wrong or you have a different definition ... Here are a couple of interesting articles about net energy: http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2005/03/21_steilm_ethanolenergy/ http://www.nebiofuels.org/pdfs/Energy Balance.pdf or this LINK if you're having problems opening the PDF, like I am.
Yes DDawg16 I know how that is, we must keep the wife feeling safe. Ask her if you were to restore say a '56 Buick Roadmaster (providing she knows what one looks like) but it has all the bells and whistles and all the new modern brakes and so on, and let's say she currently drives a Lexus station wagon and she has an accident, (heaven forbid) which car does she think she would rather be in? No matter what senario I come up with, my wife is not going to drive a big old clunker as she calls them. Thank you deputy for reading my blog. Gene
so if you worked for GM,FORD or CHRYSLER and that job building new cars supported your family this thread wouldn't even be written! what a crock of shit!!
Hello sgtlethargic I agree as a blanket statement all petroleum based vehicles are energy losers. But my point is we don't have to run out and by a new vehicle and add to energy problems when we can recycle one again. which one takes less energy to produce? which one is safer for us to breathe? can we have our cake and eat it too? Would taking an old vehicle and mounting solar cells on the roof with sufficient storage capacity in the trunk work? you would produce energy for that particular vehicle only. However that has only worked on days with plenty of sun. According to one of those articles we would be saving energy by not producing the ethanol. So what is the trade off you'll have to go and plug in to an alternative energy source and where does that energy come from, we are always going to use energy in some form or another but I think we need to shrink our footprint in our world and we can do it, but inturn we also have to shrink the greed of the petroleum producers and their companies. You know the government has to release funds to find alternate energy sources and they need to start Now, and that doesn't mean for those companies to drag their research out for twenty years. We have the greatest advancements in technology right now there is no reason that we should be buying oil from the middle east. That's enough a person could go on forever on a subject like this and there's no point in beating a dead horse.
Not every old car is cool. Some should have been crushed long ago. You can start with the 4 doors. Plus most people have no business driving an old car ...most people are idiots when it comes to them. Turn the key and go suits them well. I don't build Hotrods because I care about recycling. Just as I don't breathe to convert oxygen into carbon dioxide to keep trees alive. By the way, when did carbon dioxide start being a bad thing?? My carbon foot print is HUGE ...and I like it that way (I can hear the 'Green Police' now). What color is the opposite of green anyway?
The British dont think the Prius is a good idea The Americans dont think so either The Aussies do the math to show exactly how much of a looser it is!
I drive my old truck everyday. I do miss the luxury and creature comforts of the newer trucks I've had in the past, but I feel comfortable in my old one. The fact that I can repair anything on it with ease, get 90% of the parts at the local parts store, and buzz down the highway getting the same or better mileage than most new trucks is aces in my book. Another plus is I rarely see another truck like mine on the road. I find it funny when I'm on the road and see 3 new Mustangs or Camaros or 3 new Harley-Davidson F-150's near eachother in traffic...They're everywhere! As for the whole hybrid thing, I think it's all horseshit. My truck was pulled out a junkyard, rebuilt, and has been on the road for several years since it's reincarnation. It was 40 some-odd years old when it was ressurected. What will a plastic hybrid thing look like in 40 years? I read an article about Hybrids in a magazine from '05 or so, when they were just getting attention by the masses. They tested 3 hybrid vehicles, and 3 matching gasoline vehicles. The hybrids only got a few mpg more than their gas-powered siblings after a weekend long road trip, yet cost so much more to purchase. The editor also mentioned the fact that the gasoline versions would be cheaper and easier to repair 10 years down the road since the hybrids parts would be obsolete by then. What gets me is, back in 1988 Honda's CRX HF model got 55mpg with a 1.5 liter gas powered 4 cylinder. Since then, not a single manufacturer has been able to come near that mpg number, even with all the technology, hybrid BS, variable timing crap, or anything else. You still see those CRX's going down the road everyday...over 20 years since they came out. 20 years from now I doubt we'll see as many Prius's or Smart cars as we see CRX's now.
I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you on all counts here. The only way your statement could be true is if you believe that the automakers have shed weight to get good gas milage and everything else stayed the same. But thats not the case. Technology has made it where they can build SAFER cars with lighter materials. The term crumple zone comes to mind. That said, cars today are made to disintegrate in an accident. That is by design. Absorbing the impact so that the occupants of the car can walk away instead of being carried away. Take a look at this video. <iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/FQvd5_PMACI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> <iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/joMK1WZjP7g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Bottom line is that just because the metal is thicker doesn't mean that it is safer for you, your kids or the other people on the road. They don't show them opening the doors after the crash, but you can tell just by the carnage which car won this battle. As someone said earlier, it is very poetic what you are saying, but its just not practical at all. I have a 04 tahoe that I drive to work every day. I have 120K miles on it and have done nothing but a couple fluid changes, filter changes and the regular oil changes. I pulled a couple plugs about 10K miles ago to change them and they were in good enough shape that I put them back in and let it ride. There is no way that any of my classics would ever be able to pull off that kind of reliability. Not to mention that if I am in a wreck I will have dual airbags and factory installed seat belts holding me nice and tight keeping me far safer than my Shoebox with the lap belts installed with universal mounting brackets. I wouldn't trade the safety that my late model gives me for anything in todays world. That said, I have a 50 Ford Shoebox that I can get in and drive anytime and a 50 Chevy truck and 66 Econoline truck that I am "saving". One from each of my grandfathers. So I agree with the saving of old tin, just don't think that it is ever as practical as a late model vehicle in terms of safety or reliability.
Then buy a new car with airbags and crumple zones and - gasp - seatbelts. Say what you like, but new cars really are much safer. 15-20mpg is not acceptable to me except for a fun/weekend type car.
It's more than that. Buying the new car supports the established industry's efforts to achieve critical threshold production volumes, and therefore its capacity - and need - to keep producing more and more. Forget the Geo, buy the oldest car that'll do the job for you, the one that's furthest away from its manufacture process. In fact the whole unspoken point of hybrids is that they drive critical threshold production volumes to unprecedented levels. That's why industry is doing them.
I think energy balance is neither here nor there, it's all about ways to get energy into a useable from. It's the same as the calorific-value thing that keeps clouding thinking on alternative fuels.
I think most people have no business driving any kind of car at all - not that I'd have them forcibly prevented. It should be much easier to get around by other means, and perhaps less convenient to get around by car; so that those who don't really like cars or enjoy driving would tend to choose other means. It's all about traffic volumes. The safety thing, too: it's a sort of traffic arms-race that forces people into no-brainer passively-safe cars because all the other idiots on the road are driving them, and consequently consider themselves and everyone else on the road immortal. Less traffic would make for less need for "safe" vehicles. (One of my problems with today's cars is that they're much too heavy for their size: the "unsafe econobox" argument doesn't quite work if that econobox weighs as much as a '55 Chevy, as many of them do.) 15-20mpg might be perfectly acceptable if there are hardly any vehicles on the road - but I think one can have fun with less fuel!
I saw a comparative test between a new VW diesel and one from the seventies. The new car was actually worse, due to "bloat" I suppose. It had tree times the power and about twice the weight of the old model. Safer and cleaner - yes, but loaded with all kinds of luxury stuff that nobody actually needs. Not my idea of progress.
I don't think anyone can argue that bio fuels are better then the real stuff. Whether it's the efficiency in how it's made or pertaining to the efficiency of performance. But it's keeping money here. Much like, as mentioned, that new car production is in the interest of new car sellers.
I tried to figure out a formula for this, to compare it to out 50-80 year old cars getting 15-25 mpg... Somebody smarter than me needs to try it.
Hell I pretty much have alwasy driven vintage, I have lapsed a couple of times. I really never considered my old heaps to be vintage I just have always driven what I liked. Hell the wife and I still consider what a lot of the fellas call vintage to be late model. Not to go off on a rabbit trail but I think that attitude about older cars has a lot to do with recycling it. We don't really consider our old cars to be recycled they are just our old cars. More often than not we don't even consider the cool factor they are just the cars that we grew up with and what we like to drive. I probably wouldn't consider rescueing a 240-Z or even an old Camero but I guess along the lines of recycling one of those would also fit the bill. By the way gemnewt, I was ignoring the statement of value on my old Stude I just got caught up in other conversation. I was actually offered way more than what you stated recently for the car. I guess that was where to fools met the fella that offered me what he did and me for not taking it. The problem was or is that I don't have another project lined up to take its place and he wanted me to throw in a lot of the really trick obsolete parts that I have wrangled to put it together. I could certainly replace everything and probably come out ahead but it would be work and I don't do this for monetary gain. It is purely a way to retain my sanity. Now of someone had something on my list of must owns to trade it may hit the door but it would have to be a pretty smooth trade for me to consider it.
Yea there are a lot of variables to consider. One would be miles traveled with in a year. If you did 10,000 miles a year with a 10mpg vehicle you'd make owning a prius a pretty good option. 10mpg/10,000miles = 1,000 gallons a year 46mpg/10,000miles = 218 gpy 782 gallons the first year. telecommute for work and drive a gasser around locally!
telecommute for work and drive a gasser around locally! Right! If it wasn't for current emission regulation we could get better MPG. Cats use about 20% to 30% of your fuel just to stay hot. That is why late 70's and early 80's honda's and V dubs got 40 to 50 MPG No "cat food" and light weight bare bones on the options
Better yet, do a job that only involves a local presence: yeah, I wish, but so do lots of people. I'd like to rely on no more than the people in a half-mile radius from me for my livelihood, and it's certainly possible in theory. Think of the logistics involved in housing and transporting 1000 people doing the sort of work that goes into a typical hot rod build, each working in their own workshop near or at their home. Compare that to the logistics involved in transporting 1000 people to an auto plant and back every day. Even if you factor in running for parts etc. it's a completely different scenario - especially if the parts suppliers/manufacturers also operate on the same principle and are consequently right there in the neighbourhood. It's a completely different kind of economy.
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