Technical Redirection: 3 speed, no, let's make it a 4 speed, and back to a 3 speed into my '40 Ford coupe

Well, I'm sticking with the stock column shifter. I'll ask dad if he's interested in selling the shifter.

 

Picked up my transmission adapter and did some test fitting this afternoon. The Ford blue section is a Chevy powerglide adapter, to early Ford ring in the middle, to the new adapter back to Chevy transmission. Adds about 3/8" so I bought the long pilot bushing to make up the difference.

Need to make a throwing bearing return spring hook. I am thinking that there may be just enough bearing face to let me use a diaphragm style pressure plate, too.

 

While I am done with most of the "parts gathering" portion of the prep work, tomorrow starts the real job of pulling the engine and the 350 turbo out of the car. Tonight, I had the missus and her best friend follow me down to Doug's shop, where I dropped off the coupe, so that I am not starting the process with a hot engine tomorrow.

Was kinda weird, thinking about tonight's ride being the last one with an automatic in the car, and the next time I drive it, it should have a little bit of a different personality.

Unfortunately, tomorrow, I also made a last minute commitment to one of the local churches, to take my '40 stake truck to have them use it in their Christmas photos, so I'll have about a 2.5 hour recess in my progress. Still hoping to have everything apart by tomorrow evening, and the engine and transmission mated together and ready to go in Saturday morning.

 

The things we do to ourselves. I certainly have no room to say anything for I've done the crazy as well because I wanted things a certain way.

 

Hood off

Grille and Radiator out

Engine and turbo350 out

The Ford Blue 350 with the adapters and Saginaw 3 line 3 speed hanging out back

Clutch pedal back in the car after being out for 35 years.

I still need to cut a clutch pedal hole in the toe board that I took out, but I used the stock one for this photo. Since the car had a 350 turbo in it when I had the exhaust originally run, I will need to remove about a foot section to have it rerouted around the clutch pedal and linkage.

Tomorrow, the engine will get a little scrubbing, the shift arms will get new bushings, and we'll set the whole thing back into the car and make shift linkage rods. Hoping to be able to test it before heading home from the shop. If all goes well and I don't have any issues, I will go ahead and set the radiator back in, put the grille back on, and take it for a ride.

 

Looking good man

 

What you now have is essentially a three piece bellhousing. There's a lot of possibility for misalignment, are there locating dowells between the parts? I'd strongly suggest while you have the motor out that you dial the transmission register diameter to make sure it's concentric with the crankshaft, and also dial the trans mounting surface to make sure it's square to the crank centerline. If either of these relationships is out, you could end up with a trans that's hard to shift, won't stay in gear, wears out the pilot bushing quickly, or any of a number of other problems.
Back on the subject of clutch linkage, the book pictured below is a great source of info on all things clutch related. It dates from 1977 and may be hard to find now, but worth the search. I've built numerous sets of mechanical and hydraulic clutch linkages over the years using dimensions and formulas from this book, they've all worked well. I typically assume .080" travel needed at the pressure plate to release the clutch, take into consideration the diaphragm or lever ratio in the pressure plate, the release fork ratio, various lever or cylinder ratios. I shoot for 6" of pedal travel at the foot pad, including an inch of freeplay at the top, four inches to operate the cluch, and an inch of reserve. Fifty pounds of force required at the pedal is a comfy max, if you know the clamping force of the pressure plate (typical 3000 pounds) you can work backwards from that and adjust accordingly. Generally speaking, longer pedal travel equals less force required.

Edit: A 1991 edition of the book is available from amazon.

 

The Powerglide adapter is on the locating dowels in the engine block. The middle adapter has a lip that locates it and the bolts won't go in unless it's aligned perfectly. There are dowels between it and the transmission adapter, too.

I fired up the car, yesterday, without the drive shaft in it, and shifted it through the gears and engaged the clutch. I think I have the clutch adjusted just a turn or two tight on the pushrod clevis. Picking up the driveshaft this morning and will get it back in the car and test it out. May have a little clutch adjustment to deal with, but feeling good about it, so far.

I flipped the stock Camaro shift arms 90 degrees, so it would work with the column shifter, but I need to make some longer arms and have them clocked about 45 degrees forward, so I can have a little better lever travel. Currently, at the end of the column shifter, it's about a 4" throw between reverse and first, and the same for 2nd and 3rd. Because they pass the 90 degree center point, it makes the engagement into 1st and 3rd a little clunky, as it is, but that will be a project for a Saturday afternoon this winter.

 

Sounds like you've anticipated "what could possibly go wrong" and dealt with the details. Nicely done.
Clocking the trans levers so they're at 90 degrees to the rods in neutral and lengthening them a bit will certainly smooth out the shifts. Hopefully you have some length adjustment in your rods too. I recently did column linkage for a '49 Ford/ nailhead/ super T10 combo, the original column linkage shifts the forward gears, the original overdrive handle shifts reverse via a Morse cable. It took some reshaping of the levers and rods and adjustment of their travel to ensure that there was no rubbing or interference anywhere. It's a busy area of the car, especially with a left side starter.
Some years ago I also ran a car in the shop for a while without the driveshaft installed, forgetting that the trans tailshaft seal runs on the od of the output yoke. Left a puddle on the floor... :-(

 

Thanks! After the decision to go with the adapter route, there was quite a bit of measuring, and planning, and still a whole lot of uncertainty about which throwout bearing to use.

I did get the driveshaft into the car, topped off the gear oil, and drove it up to the muffler shop, to reroute the section that I cut out to make clearance for the clutch linkage.

Just for reference, in case anybody is crazy enough to do what I did, here's what I used:

• SBC Powerglide adapter to early Ford (Just because that's what I already had)
• Speedway Part # 91628926 Early Ford to Chevy standard transmission adapter kit, including stock throwout bearing and sleeve
• Old Ford clutch throwout fork and shaft, robbed from an old shelled housing that I had
• A "Long" throwout bushing, due to the extra 3/8" caused by the Powerglide/Early Ford combo
• Clutch disc and pressure plate from O'Reilly K1675-10
• Stock '40 Ford linkage that I had removed from the coupe 30+ years ago
• Saginaw 3 line 3 speed (due to it's low 1st and 2nd gears, and my rear gears being 2.79's)

• NOTE: I did use a die grinder and took about 1/8" off of each of the fingers in the clutch diaphram, to make sure that it would clear the circumference of the throwout bearing sleeve.

The alignment of the clutch linkage was pretty much spot on. What I failed to measure correctly was the distance between the front of the engine and the existing turbo 350 crossmember mount holes and the end of the tail shaft. We drilled a piece of 3/8" steel plate and adapted the rear mount, and I had the driveshaft shortened 1 1/2", and it all worked like a charm.

Using one of the online calculators, and trying to guess that a normal shift point would be somewhere around 3000RPM, I was guessing comfortable shift points would be between 25-30 and 45-50. Seemed those calculations were about right. Without the "slush factor" of the torque converter, the engine seemed to be loafing doing 65 down the highway. It definitely likes 70-75 much better.

I will more than likely be fine tuning the clutch linkage. At this point, there is only about 1/2" of pedal movement before the throwout bearing engages, and about 2" at the bottom, after the clutch is fully engaged. I'd like to even that up just a bit. The shift arms, on the transmission will be a project for an upcoming Saturday morning.

 

Cool!

 

Still can't believe you worked that all out so quickly. Takes me forever to do things anymore.

 

BTW...thanks to @junkyardjeff for the suggestion to use the adapters.

 

All ya gotta do Guthrie is next time you do a project like this don't post it till your done, then you can make it look like you figured it out as quick as you'd like people to think you did.

That's my plan anyhow haha

 

Thanks for taking us along on this adventure bchrismer! Good detail in your posts and a great outcome. Have fun shifting that 3 on the tree.

 

Thanks, @The 39 guy. All my "older" hot rod buddies think I am crazy, putting in the 3 speed, but I put that 350 turbo in 25 years ago, and have wished all this time that I hadn't. I figure in another 25 years, if I want to put a 350 turbo back in, I know how to do that again.

I did discover a puddle of coolant under the front end of the car today, so I will run it back down to the shop tomorrow, pull the lower pan back off, and find the source of the leak. At first, I thought it was overflow from filling it too full, but after looking inside, I'm more convinced I didn't get the lower hose to seal good when I put it back on. Out of "convenience", I put the clamp on facing downward, so I have to pull the pan from under the radiator to get to it. The lower pan may be temporarily left off, just to make sure that I got the leak stopped. While I have it at the shop, I'll mess with the clutch adjustment to get a little more free movement at the top of the pedal travel.

I also wanted to make sure and give a decent summary of what all I used, so that it can be a reference for anybody else who is wanting to use stock linkage.

 

Nice swap. I've been doing something similar in my 40 with a t5, but I decided to go hydraulic MC and external slave, as I couldnt work out how to get the stock pedals to work with the clutch fork, have you got any pics of this area, I'd be really interested, Id rather have a mechanical linkage, less to go wrong..

 

Hey Neil,

I had originally started to follow your path, and had you send me drawings. I'll try to get some pics later, but it is totally stock pedals, with the cross shaft that goes on the ball on the frame to the shift shaft.

 

I'm with Butch on the Sagnaw 4-speed!!!
3.11 has 2 grooves on the imput, 3.50 has 3 - IIR. Shift it off the column, use a cable for reverse... LOVE my 3.11 Sag behind my 235, 3.08 gears, 14" tires - '57 Chevy. I'd keep yer eyes open for one - GOOD 3-speed parts are HARD to find these days!

 

@neilswheels

I snagged this photo off of the Ford Barn, as I couldn't get a good photo trying to get my phone in a position to take a decent picture.

The Speedy Bill adapter that I used uses the stock clutch fork rod, clutch fork, etc (7510, 7515). I had saved all the parts from when I removed it from the car, so I still had the 7503, and the 7507 ball, I had never removed from the frame. I had to order the 7539 and 7517 pieces.

I know that they make the same adapter for a T5, which I believe has a different sized bearing retainer diameter. To use that adapter, you would have to also use a Chevy engine to Early Ford transmission adapter. I used the stock Chevy flywheel with a replacement diaphram style clutch, and I took 1/8" off of each tooth so it would clear the throwout bearing adapting sleeve. This saved me from needing to have the flywheel redrilled for a Ford pressure plate.

Everything wound up lining up spot on, from the engine back to the clutch linkage. I've dumped about 5 tanks of gas into the car, since the swap, so that is somewhere near 1000 miles of driving it. Everything seems to be working like it is supposed to.

 

^^^^^ "A picture is worth a thousand words". Let's hope so ?

 

CRAP! I already burned through my allotted "thousand words".

 

Well...it's been two years and probably about 15,000 miles of driving, and I had a throw out bearing failure, back at the end of November. Due to an act of stupidity, and sticking my index and middle finger into the spinning heater fan in the '40 truck, December 1st, I've not been able to tear into it until this past week.

Over the past 4 weeks, I thought of all kinds of possible issues that could have been the problem, but after getting the engine and transmission out, and pulling the transmission off of the engine, I found that the fingers of the diaphragm were rubbing on the throw out bearing carrier, which caused nastiness inside of the bearing. All the other stuff looked great, and all of the other stuff I thought I might have broken seemed to be fine.

I have a new throw out bearing, and other goodies ordered, which should be here before next weekend. I also ordered a Borg and Beck style clutch kit, O'Reilly part PTQ K1510-02, and will put that all together and back in this weekend. That's the same style that I used when I did the SBC swap into the '40 stake truck, and it seems to clear without any issues, as is.

 

Glad to see your still amongst the living and with ten fingers to boot!

 

The coupe lives again!

So...quick update. I tried the Borg & Beck style pressure plate. It didn't work. There was too much distance to the clutch fingers to work with the stock throwout bearing. The suggestion that the clutch shop made was to have a machine shop make a new throwout bearing carrier that moved the bearing forward enough to do the trick.

Unfortunately, I didn't learn that this was an issue until I had already reset the engine and transmission in the car and had everything except the clutch linkage hooked back up.

Because I'm too cheap to have a new throwout bearing carrier machined to close the gap between the bearing face and the clutch fingers, I did some additional grinding on the clutch fingers of the diaphragm pressure plate to clear the area that it rubbed the center of the carrier on. In addition to this, I discovered that the grease groove inside the carrier of the Speedy Bill throwout bearing is further towards the clutch than on a stock one, so I had a new bearing pressed on a stock carrier. I had the clutch shop cut down the nose of the carrier, so it is lightly lower than the face of the throwout bearing face, too, for additional clearance.

One thing that I also did was used a hole saw to cut an inspection hole in the top of the Speedy Bill adapter that I had used, just to make sure that everything fit the way it was supposed to, and operated cleanly before installing it. I drilled and tapped a couple of holes to allow me to screw a stock inspection plate over the hole.

Glad to have it back on the road.

 

Congrats on being back on the road! And clever idea about the inspection cover! Got a photo?

 

Here ya go, @Tim

 

I probably understand about 1/10th of this thread, but it's fascinating

 

You're probably doing better than me, and I was the guy writing it. LOL

I'm quite tempted. I found that when I put everything back together, it would have been a good opportunity to put new synchronizers in the 3 speed, as 2nd has some double clutching that needs to be done, now. I am looking for a 2nd Saginaw 3 groove, and whether it's a three or four speed, I am not really particular. I know that Kenny Mutert, up near Wentzville, MO, recently did that swap in his '40 coupe, to a 4 speed on the column.