The Ford flathead V8 in my 34 roadster has suffered a catastrophic failure and I'm considering replacing it with a more modern 302. I want to leave the car as original as I can, but honestly, I'm done with flatheads. I'm certain I'm not the first person to consider a 302; what are the pros and cons? Are there engine mounts available or do I have to make them? I'd like to stick with a manual transmission, any suggestions? I would like to maintain the 40 Ford rearend, I had the gears replaced by "Hot Rod Works" when we got the car running, so I am certain it can handle a 302. I'm not looking for lots of horsepower, just a reliable, dependable, engine/transmission setup.
It's a good plan, I got rid of my last two flatheads last year. When doing a swap like you want to, it's never as easy as buying the parts and doing it. It gets very involved and I hope you have patience and some good skills and equipment. I don't want to discourage you as in the end you will be so much happier with the overhead valve engine, but it's work and you will have to spend some money. I wish you good luck so have fun.
Thanks, I've read a couple articles on the Internet - the 302 might be too long. In the early 70's I had a 33 Ford pickup with a 265 and a Powerglide 2 speed. We put a 383 Stroker in my 1953 M38A1 a few years back. My goal here is to find something which will work without any modifications to the firewall, I know I may need to adapt for engine mounts. An old Chevy 327 would be a consideration as well.
Going by your last line of the post, an early SBC seems to me to be pretty much made for this application and has been done countless of other times. Something like you mentioned, 327, 283, etc. Does you roadster have the stock motor mounts in the front or are they on the side like later motors? If on the side, Hurst mount swap mount sits right on the existing mounts and a trans adaptor will hook up to the three speed. Every fits like it was meant to be. I've never done an OHV swap in an early Ford, but I've read a number of times that a 302 Ford may need some mods to the firewall to fit. Sorry you had bad luck with the flatheads. I love 'em.
I built a 34 sedan in 1980 put a 289 in it had to recess the firewall. My 33 pickup i have now has a 350 chevy in it now and is a close fit without doing anything to the firewall. Just be ready for the chevy haters to give you crap. your car do it your way.
Hello, In searching for information on flatheads, I came across this bit of HAMB thread/posts. It is a thread about a 289/302 in a 33-34 Ford. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/289-in-a-34-ford.1179095/ It is a nice thread and very informative. Back when i had a flathead motor, if I had enough money at the time, 85 horsepower for the stock power was not enough to keep up with the flow of traffic on our long coastal road trips we took every weekend during school and weekdays in the vacations/summer. It is not a 34 ford, but the flathead ran smoothly, kept up with local cruising on flat highways, never had a problem for daily driving to school. But, when we took it on long road trips, it was slow lane and going up steep grades on the Coast Highway, first gear for climbing. Sometimes, it was so slow that helmeted race bike riders could keep up and sometimes beat us to the top. Jnaki My solution was to put in a 283 motor with the abundance of adapters and connections available just anout anywhere at the time. But, as a teen, limited income prevented that conversion. Now that having a 34 Ford for a cool daily driver, our friend had a 34 Ford Coupe with an Oldsmobile motor and it was a fun hot rod to ride around. Plenty of room inside for a growing teen and neck snapping power when it called for "more power."
I have a Ford 392 with a Tremec 5 speed in my 3 window. I made simple flat motor mounts. Going to be changing this to a more traditional feel one day. I don't think a there would be much difference between a SBF and a SBC by fitment. I've done both.
Good news is the 289,302 or 5.0 can be made smaller with a Motorsports waterpump so you don’t have to recess the firewall. The early days you would have to get creative to fit the small block ford into a hotrod because of the length. Now they make a number of parts to solve all the issues with fitting the sbf into a 1928-1934 and later years. The waterpump isn’t the only thing you may look into purchasing as an off set 90 degree oil filter adapter to clear any steering box or shaft issues. I recommend using the Motorsport streetrod headers as they dump in the rear on the drivers side and front on the passenger side. If you using stock exhaust manifolds no issues. Also look for an early smog pump bracket from an early bronco. This will relocate the alternator very low on the passenger side and out of sight. Also good to see you can Doll up the motor with a 3x2 intake from blue thunder as they make cobra and Shelby goodies.
Thanks, that helps. Right now the big question is can I do this swap without any major modifications to the frame or body. It's not the work, it's basically ruining an original 1934 Roadster. When I found this car I was looking for 34 parts to build a high horsepower street rod; what I found was an original 1934 Roadster which had been sitting in storage for about 40 years. After much deliberation, a tremendous amount of input from this forum, and my wife, who said, "Leave it original, drive it, if you don't like it - give it to me and start over". So, I sent the car to Vern Tardel who took it down to the frame and put it back together; leaving it with it's patina from the late 40's/ear;y 50's. Now I find myself in that same spot. Yes, I know it's my car and I can do what I want - but, in my opinion, real is real and fake is fake; putting anything other than a flathead in that car is disrespectful. If I put a modern V8 in it where do I stop? The transmission swap in my 1953 M38A1 resulted in a custom built frame, a 17" stretch, and a 500HP stroker. I honestly think it may be time to consider selling it to someone who wants an original with all the patina and just start over with a TCI frame and a big block.
Don't you also need to get the right oil pan to make it fit? A regular SBF in passenger applications has a front sump pan, but a rear sump is needed to clear the crossmember in a 1940 car. There's probably aftermarket solutions, I think the old way was to get a pan from a Bronco or a van.
Don’t believe that. Not measuring the same stuff. There is no way a SBF will fit in a 34 without cutting the firewall, as well as a whole lot of the center from the X member. Even a SBC will require hacking the X member. Then, it’s a fool’s errand to try keeping the stock rearend. Will spend as much on an open drive kit and additional mounts and bracing for the wishbones than its worth. And don’t forget splitting the front wishbone too since you cut the mount out of the X member. I suggest you sell it to someone who can appreciate it, and build your modern car from something else.
If you find a good flathead builder, there's nothing wrong with keeping one in there. Besides, which looks & sounds better? Easily the FH. If you "upgrade"(?) to a 302, you will double the HP. Those old trans/rears aren't meant for that. It's easy to say, "I won't push the accelerator too hard," but much harder to abide by. After all the work to put it in there with the other stock parts, you'll be upgrading those in the future. Just ruin it all now with the small block, C-4, & 9", or keep it cool with a new flathead.
I agree with you that those measurements are incorrect. No way a complete flathead is 1" longer than a complete SBF with water pump. Every SBF I've seen installed in an early Ford had some type of firewall mod done to it.
I have rear sump pan on the SBF in my 32 . It was not necessary on my car , the engine sits behind the front axle so a front sump pan will work . The left ( drivers side ) exhaust manifold , an early Bronco or Galaxie same manifold , right ( passenger side ) OT Mustang 2 with V8 . 65 -67 289 HiPo will work both sides . Many sets of aftermarket tube headers are available . Make Henry proud and tuck the Ford under the hood !
The two issues when swapping Ford small blocks have always been length and oil filter location. The oil filter is probably the easier of the two to deal with. Looking around the net the short pumps will get you between 1-1/8 and two inches off the 30 inch length of water pump hub to bellhousing mounting surface. Allegedly Snow White sold a water pump that was 2 inches shorter than the stock "regular" pump but if one craps out on you on a road trip you are are screwed because getting a replacement isn't going to be easy. It's bad enough on my 48 Chev with the 250 six with the hub pressed back to shorten the length. I'd have to buy a pump and then find a shop with a press to press the hub down on the shaft to the right length and then cut off the shaft. That isn't possible on a small block Ford water pump.
A '34 project at my kid's place; SBC, short pump, fan close to the radiator, tried to get it in there but still needed to cut a little recess to fit the distributor (not cut at this point). The slant back of the radiator is the limiting factor. A CE kit worked good to replace the center of the X member. Also used a 9" on a Posies parallel leaf kit out back.
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