reverse electrolysis for rust removal

Well I ran across the "rust removal the easy way" in the Tech Archives and decided to try it. I got a plastic storage bin and put some 20 Mule Team Borax in it plus some other soaps and hooked a battery charger up to it. Well I think it may work but seems like my exhaust manifold is going to have to be in there about a week. There is all kinds of stuff builds up on the bottom of the steel rod in the tank and bubbles come from the manifold. I have about 4 gallons of water in the container. It's been in there all day today and I'll leave it all night.

Would be dangerous as hell but I wonder what AC power would do? Whoo Hoooo .. Ka Bam !! ..

 

Electrolysis rust removal is a miracle. The best instructions are at http://antique-engines.com/electrol.asp

Use Arm & Hammer Super Washing Powder, it's pure sodium carbonate. Borax is sodium tetraborate decahydrate.

 

AC?
For goodness sakes.. READ THE ARCTICLES!!!!!!!!
PLEASE!
If you aren't kidding then you are an absolute danger to the world or and idiot...
One way to get rid of newbies.

 

I always knew people from Canada couldn't take a joke ... Geeeze !

 

hahahaha
you crack me up.

 

Thanks Garvy, I'll go get some A&H tomorrow. I don't have all of that gook on top of my "recipe". There is a ton of something builds up on the bottom of that anode though ... My little old (and I mean old) charger may not be putting out so much juice either but that guy in the archives said he only had like 2 amps I think. Anyway, thanks ..

 

You say you only have the anode on the bottom of the container?
Since the process is line of sight you could get a better job if you added another anode or two to the container to surround the part more. Too much sacrificial steel though and you'll need lots of amps to do the job.
Slower (less amps) is better to retain the strength of the part to be cleaned. Hydrogen embrittlement is a bit of an issue too with high amps.
There is a fair bit of discussion about that in the tech articles too. Cooking the part for a while is usually advised for manifolds and parts that need a high amount of strength.
The main reason I flipped on you is because I saw someone read a post like that and actually try it.
NOT pretty.
Enough DC amps through the water can be nasty if you grab the anode and cathode while the juice is flowing. Seen that too. Man did his eyes light up!
Oh, I have a fantastic sense of haha, like MOST Canadians.. after all many of YOUR comedians are Canadian

 

John Candy was one of the best ever Giz ... OK, I'll add another rod to the other side. That manifold is sort of awkward too .. need to get one end off of the bottom of the pan. I've got mine tied up with tie wraps and a wood stick. I'll go to the store and see if I can find that A&H stuff too .. Thanks ...

 

My main barrel is a 60 gallon plastic one with the top cut off. I use four 3.5 foot pieces of 2" angle iron for anodes, standing on end, spaced around the barrel (secured with C-clamps), and wired in series.

I hang my items with wire from a board laid across the top of the barrel, and connect the lead from the battery charger to the wire.

I use a 10-amp charger and try to get it to draw beteen 3 and 6 amps. Heavier items, like a manifold, need more current or more time, but if you're getting those little champagne bubbles, it's working.

When you disconnect it and let your bucket sit a bit you will get that skim on the top.

When you take your item out, hose it off and wire brush it to get the crap off. It will have a coating of black oxide on it and it's harder to get off after it dries. The oxide is hard to get off your hands so you might want to wear plastic gloves.

It's probably the best "tip" I've found in the last couple of years. It works.

gary

 

I did the bed-sides of my 30 A pickup. I built a wooden box and lined it with a decent tarp since I couldn't find a container larger enough. It's work very well.
I've done many parts this way because old tin warps so easily with blasting and too much blasting makes it work-hardened if you need to do much hammer and dolly work.
Yes, that black magnetite is a bear to get off once it dries. And almost impossible to get off of cloths and skin. Too many people think they need to remove all of it but it paints well and is what those rust convertors turn rust into.
There have been lots of discussions here and on the web about this stuff but it's still good to repeat since it works well.
Just don't use stainless steel as the sacrificial steel.
Also... if you have time to wait for the part.. check out molasses-dipping. That blew me away.
Oh.. a few Canadian comedians you might know and some not know they are canuks...
http://particle.physics.ucdavis.edu/Canadians/comedians.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_comedians
See.. we know ha-ha.
So do Americans... you voted in Bush... TWICE! Sorry if that offends.

 

I've got it all set up now. I just need to go to the store and see if I can find some of that A&H. I don't remember ever seeing it before but I've never paid any attention to it either. I've only got to anodes though. When I dumped the water there was all kinds of goop in it as it was but not that "frothy recipe" like in the pictures. There is something that builds up on the bottom of the anodes. Will that hinder the flow of electricity? Do I need to clean that stuff off every now and then? I got the bubbles as it was. I've got a 4bb intake coming and maybe I'll try that too if nothing more to get the paint off. Thanks a ton to you guys.

 

Where are you guys finding this A&H Super Washing Soda at? Can't seem to find it anywhere. What are the alternatives to A&H?

 

I finally found it at the grocery store. It was where the 20 Mule Team Borax was. I went to 4 stores before I found it but Publix here in Tallahassee had it. It's around the laundry detergent stuff. I was beginning to think I wasn't going to find it. If you check above, the story about it, the guy in the story says you can make it out of baking soda by putting it in the oven on a cookie sheet. I was beginning to think I was going to have to resort to that. I've got mine out there "cooking" right now.

 

I have actually used the caustic powder mixed with water that is used in the professional hot vat solutions in rebuilding shops. I have a hot vat that is not heated and used the entire metal vat as one of the electrodes and suspended the part in the solution.

 

Publix has it. I found that 10a does the job pretty quick.

The Molasses trick will take a lot longer, but no hydrogen embrittlement, and it'll ge in the nooks and crannies (AND the crooks and nannies).

I broke a piece of sheet metal large enough to line a plastic bin, and ran the power to it. I also found that if you wrap the item in heavy fiberglass screen material, you don't have to suspend it, you can lay it right on top the sheetmetal.

 

Ok. I yap on.. sorry, in advance.

What do you mean by "heavy fiberglass screen material"?
That is interesting. Suspending a part is often a pain, especially since the process is so line of sight. I'd be interested in finding out if much rust is missed this way because the f/g is "in the way".

As for cleaning the goop.. I did 2 bed sides, the headboard, tail gate and sun visor of my '30 without cleaning up the goop. Then again... I had my parts suspended enough from the bottom that it didn't matter. It does change the effectiveness of the process if the sludge is allowed to touch both the anode and cathode. I know the current draw varies with the distance from the anode and cathode , the size of the anode and also with the amount of soda in the water.

Just don't reach in and grab the parts to move them around while the juice is flowing. 12 volts at 10amps in water is still enough to make you notice it.
There are formulas for the amount of amps per square footage of part to clean. If you can't find it on the web or here.. let me know and I'll dig it up from the depths of a computer somewhere.

Oh ya.. do NOT do this inside with no venting. It does produce hydrogen gas with really is quite "boom-able"!

I'll shut up now unless spoken too.

 

How do you know when this cookin' is done? I still don't have a "recipe" at the top of the water and it's been on for like goin' on 7 hours now. The champaign bubbles are still going and there is a white substance (may be bubbles) on top of the manifold. I need a gauge that says "DONE" ...

 

hmm Very good question.
I usually wait 24 hours, pull the part, scrub off the black (as much as I can) to see if any brown is left. If so.. another 12-24.
7 isn't long enough unless you are cooking it with high amps.
I don't go nuts on amps. 2-6 max for most of the stuff I did.
Again.. kill the juice first so the power supply or you aren't affected.

24 hours might seem like a long time but no blasting, sanding, scraping, metal dust, sillicosis for blasting with sand or god knows what from glass blasting.
Set it up and walk away. My kinda work.
And it's a lot gentler on old steel.

I'll try to find the links I used to have for the process but there were many on here.

 

Publix? Never hear of 'em. Anyone in SoCal know where to find this stuff?

 

I couldn't find any "washing soda" anywhere around here. I ended up using "ph increaser" for swimming pools.... it's 98% Sodium Carbonate. They even had it in the pool section at walmart.

 

Interesting. Did it work well?

 

It worked great. I think it's chemically the same thing as Arm & Hammer washing soda, or very close. It says 98% Sodium Carbonate, 2% inert ingredients.

 

Excellent. Good info.
Thanks

 

Besides I ain't in a hurry. What ever it takes it takes .. as long as I see something happenin' ... and I'm about to get some "recipe" on the top .. finally ...

 

I have cleaned some BADDLY rusted things with my tank. I have a tank large enough to put an engine block in. I have cleaned up some Model T engine block that you wouldn't believe could have saved. I have left some of the big stuff in it for a couple of weeks. I find that pressure washing the part right after it comes out, gets you a nice clean part. Sometimes it is hard to get that coating off by just wire brushing.

 

I am doing exhaust manifolds. I don't think I care if the black stuff is left on them do I ?

 

That's up to you. Wouldn't bother me for a manifold. It's going to discolor anyway. Unless you are going for a certain "look".

 

When I was running a 4 foot square and 3 foot deep tub, I had a sheet of plastic with holes in it as an insulator.
Anything inert like plastic that will not conduct electricty but has holes in will work to seperate the parts.
Burned up 3 different power supplies because of shorts before I learned this.

 

Hmmm. But the process doesn't do as well if the anode can't get a direct line of sight to the cathode. It doesn't do as well around corners. I had patches of rust that wasn't removed when I had things separating the parts,
But if you get good results.. cool!

 

Well here's the deal. I did one manifold and I thought it had cooked long enough. I mean it was almost 24 hours. When I took it out there was a bunch of rust in the bottom of the tank but I never did have that frothy recipe at the top like the pictures on the sites here. Maybe I didn't have much rust to begin with. My manifold looks pretty rust free but I never did have that black stuff on it. There isn't much rust on the manifold that I already did but some.

I mixed up a new batch and put the other manifold in at 11:00 am today. It has been cooking ever since. The water is dirty, so dirty I can't hardly see the part. I checked and power is going to the anodes. I have two across from each other. My charger is an old 10 amp charger. I put my other charger on it but had to put a battery inline for it to work. It's smart and won't work without a battery inline. I turned it to 60 amps and the water boiled. I took it back off and put my old one back on and actually I don't see anything except the water is gettin' darker. I guess it is doing it's thing and I just need to leave it hooked up for a long time. Whadda ya think ?